BGA Extra: Jets vs Giants

Welcome to BGA Extra, where I draw a line under the previous weekend’s game by responding to your questions from BGA during the week. After the jump, I respond to your questions about the game against the Giants. If you would like your questions answered in future, remember to read BGA each week and leave your question in the comments section.

Note: Includes some statistics exclusively provided by Pro Football Focus.

__fense: So what was up with Mangold’s snaps? It seemed like he had a hard time with them once Vick was in the game. Did he have issues with it in previous games? Is because Vick is left handed?

I don’t think the fact he’s left handed would have an effect and no, I didn’t notice any issues in previous games. On the high snap, Mangold had to burst out of the blocks and sprint to get out in front of a screen pass (and made a great block). I guess that’s what caused him to put too much juice on that one. I’d expect a professional like Mangold to get that corrected pretty quickly.


WW85: Did Enunwa see any action?

He did get in right at the end for two snaps, both running plays.


fourbten: I wonder if when Santonio got that first down he did that cool dropping the ball thing instead if handing it to the ref?

He did not.


BDarc23: I am wondering how the Oakland offensive line looked as a unit while you were researching Austin Howard.

They’re not terrible, but Schaub has been getting rid of the ball in less than 2.5 seconds on average and there were one or two communication issues. The major issue now is that Menelik Watson had to leave game three early with a hip injury and he and Howard really don’t quite have their chemistry down yet. Khalif Barnes moved over to replace him and does have plenty of experience at that spot, but could be a potential weak link. If Watson does return, I’d question whether he and Howard have had enough on-field preparation time together. The first team offense on the whole has been underwhelming.


NYCPEinGermany: What is the official ruling on Wilson’s near interception? They seemed to indicate that he hadn’t re-established himself in bounds after being out of bounds. If that’s the case, what exactly does a player need to do to re-establish themselves in bounds?

The call was correct. The easiest way to explain it is that Wilson did this:

Left foot out – right foot out – left foot in – catch – right foot in

However, he needed to get both feet back inbounds to properly re-establish himself before the catch. This would have been okay:

Left foot out – right foot out – left foot in – right foot in – catch


RockyMountainJet: In the third game, how did Geno look in his progressions? Was he looking off safeties or staring down receivers at all? Are you able to tell if he was looking through his progressions before needing to scramble?

Very impressive. It seemed like he was scanning the whole field and aware of where the pressure was coming from. I can see what the coaching staff mentioned that sometimes it looks like he overdoes this – for example if he’s looking at his primary target and can see they’re going to be open, he’ll look at his secondary target anyway and then go back to the first option, hopefully freezing a safety or linebacker in the process to create a few more downfield yards. That takes a lot of confidence and you can see how there might be risks attached if your initial read wasn’t 100% correct.


Interested Jet: When will you starting looking at things the way they are? Kenrick Ellis is Sione Pouha 2.0. The Jets better hope that Harrison is healthy or the rest of the defensive line will suffer.

I completely agree, Ellis is another potentially elite run stuffer like Po’uha was and the defensive line would definitely suffer if Harrison wasn’t healthy. I’ve never suggested otherwise on either front.


McGeorge: What do you think of Darrin Walls? He looked ok at CB didn’t he?

I’ve always felt Walls has a good NFL future, even going all the way back to when I first scouted him. My views haven’t really changed since then, I view him as a solid option, capable of starting as he proved in limited opportunities over the past few years. I think Ellis Lankster’s press coverage skills are superior and under-utilized, but Walls has better size and did indeed perform well in the Giants game, showcasing his excellent closing speed. Having him in the starting line-up on opening day wouldn’t concern me.


Disgruntled Jets Fan: How did the defensive playcalling compare with last week, such as the failed trap plays? Also, in the last two minutes of the half, the entire stadium knew Eli was just going to throw to Cruz. Did the jets bother to give Wilson some help there? I just tend to think that you shouldn’t let the other team’s best player beat you.

I have some interesting observations on this, all from the two minute drill. One of the catches Wilson gave up came as he faked a blitz and then dropped into coverage. This was basically the same look as last week when Wilson blitzed and Harris couldn’t get over to his man in time. Again, this backfired because the couple of steps inside Wilson had taken to bluff the blitz was all the separation Cruz would need. On the Wilson (non)-interception, he had Harris coming across to double team. On the deeper out Wilson gave up to Cruz on the left side, they played straight up.

It’s worth noting here that Manning didn’t hesitate to throw that pass and if the Jets had actually been disguising a zone trap, that probably would have been an easy pick six for LeQuan Lewis, who followed his man down the sideline, vacating the area where the throw was completed. Finally, they did execute one trap successfully on that drive. This time, Cruz was lined up on the outside and Wilson passed off the slot receiver to Dawan Landry and then dropped to the outside so Manning was forced to throw high and out of bounds.

So, some interesting wrinkles there, especially showing some disguised looks and then breaking those tendencies the following week.


levi: Some questions for BGA extra:
1 Is Kyle Wilson stupid?
2 Is Stephen Hill really as bad as he looks?
3 Have you heard any inside info on why Lankster is getting passed over?
4 If Fonzie had an open seat at a Jets game and offered it to you would you sit with him?

1 When he was drafted, scouts described him as smart, so I guess not.
2 We’ll come back to that one.
3 Not that I can impart…
4 Is he paying for my flight?

Going back to number two, I criticized Hill for a sloppy route in the game and wanted to expand on that. Hill has the size and speed to create natural separation, but there seem to be lots of examples of defenders closing on him late to either break up the pass or make it harder for him to catch the ball. Some insight into this came from the video of Hill that Sanjay Lal broke down for Eric Allen on the Jets Official Site. Lal shows how Hill remains tight to the defender on the release, because this prevents the defender from being able to recover. That’s exactly the part Hill got wrong on that broken-up slant pattern on Friday night.

These are the little details that are holding Hill back from translating his practice success to actual on-field productivity. I’m not sure he deserves to be on this team, to be honest. As I write this, I’m just reading that they tried to trade him. That doesn’t surprise me. The fact there were no takers also doesn’t really surprise me either.


Jets Fan: Why was Lewis playing with the starters instead of Lankster?

Well, Lankster did get reps with the starters outside in the nickel package, which is perhaps a role they see him taking this year (as he did in 2012). As for Lewis, I assume the coaches were rewarding him for a good week of practice, where he had one day where he intercepted two passes. Lewis has played at the NFL level, so he’s not a total slouch.


joemustgo: Once we cut Ford, can we please stop signing any more of Lal’s disciples?

This was more of a rhetorical question, I guess, but I wondered if Denarius Moore (who some people thought the Jets should trade a draft pick for) counts as a Lal disciple. Lal was the wide receiver coach for his rookie season.


lcg12: On average how many seconds has it taken our three d-linemen to get close enough that the opposing QB felt pressure? The reason I ask is that ESPN showed highlights from the Packers game with a timer on Aaron Rodgers. He was getting rid of the ball between 1.5 and 2.4 seconds. That seems almost unhuman! Also, if you just looked at the Giants game, how long did it take Geno to get rid of the ball?

Smith got rid of the ball after 3.06 seconds on average with 67% of his throws being after 2.6 seconds or more. For the preseason as a whole, 63% of are over 2.6 seconds which is 4th highest among all quarterbacks with more than 20 dropbacks. Whether you view that as a sign of how good the pass protection has been or Smith taking too long to get rid of the ball is open to debate, but I lean towards the former.

Manning got rid of the ball slightly quicker – 2.95 seconds, with 61% more than 2.6 seconds. It’s always pretty inaccurate to try and time how quickly pressure arrives, but the Jets pressured Manning four times in the first quarter and each was about three seconds, so he may have avoided some pressure by throwing earlier in some cases. In all, he was pressured on nine of his 23 dropbacks and got rid of the ball in 2.5 seconds or less on nine.

In three preseason games, the Jets have allowed five sacks, 10 hits and 31 pressures while generating 10 sacks, 11 hits and 38 pressures. That’s a pretty sign that they’re doing pretty well on that front.


Thank you for your questions. Stay tuned for plenty more BGA articles throughout the offseason.




38 comments
carlhungus
carlhungus

I dont see what the rush is to cut Hill... guys like Hakim and Salas are JAGs.. there are 50 of them available on cut day.... Hill could be special, he is so young... I dont see why you keep those others over him this year. This is still a development year for this team, albeit with greater expectations. If he doesn't produce this year, then goodbye. 

lcg12
lcg12

Thanks Bent. Great stuff as always.

levi
levi

Thanks Bent. The reason I asked if wilson was stupid is because of his foolish premature or totally unwarranted celebrating.  You think he would learn after the 30th time to stop doing it.

Aaron Franklin
Aaron Franklin

I really don't get the Hill bashing. Simple research into other WR with his measurables and age do not warrant the criticism this kid is getting. His came into the league extremely young and raw. A very small class of WR his age and with his talent succeeded by his age. Let this kid grow a little. 

bob
bob

I would just like to report back to Bent to im form him that its still nice outside...

Oberyn1
Oberyn1

"In three preseason games, the Jets have allowed five sacks, 10 hits and 31 pressures while generating 10 sacks, 11 hits and 38 pressures. That’s a pretty sign that they’re doing pretty well on that front."


If Richardson develops into even an above average pass rusher we are set with him and Wilk for the next decade.


Actually we're already set with them since they're studs but Richardson becoming more of a pass rusher would be ah-f*cking-mazing.

jsadolph
jsadolph

Have you heard any inside info on why Lankster is getting passed over?
 Not that I can impart…

I am so intrigued right now. 

Will we ever be privee to that info?  He seams to do all the right things.  If there is a reason he is geting held back I can't think of it.

Is rex holding him back till the Reg. Season as a secret weapon or something?

My mind is running wild with possibilities.

jdb4
jdb4

So frustrating with Hill.  I was one of the most ardent supporters (in the fan base) that the Jets get him.  I went crazy when they drafted him.  Seeing him not reach his potential is so disappointing. 


I still hope he makes the team, call me a foolish optimist, but I hold out the belief that it will suddenly click for him.


I get the idea of keeping Salas; he's done his job, but if Hill suddenly "gets it" he offers something that Greg never can.

Bent
Bent moderator

@carlhungus


Hakim doesn't even compare with Hill.  He's on the team purely for special teams prowess and he's proven to be a very capable gunner so far.  As for kickoff returns, he's yet to do much there, but with his speed has to be considered a threat.

Aaron Franklin
Aaron Franklin

For other reference to age 22 seasons by draft age and round:


Justin Hunter - Same age and production. Anyone calling him a bust already?

Alshon Jeffery - Age 22 around the same production. 

M. Floyd - Wasn't in the league 22 yrs old. But by 23, he had only a 500 yd. year.

A.J. Jenkins - Traded 

Brian Quick - Worse numbers.


I can go on and on. 

Bent
Bent moderator

@bob Much appreciated!

jsadolph
jsadolph

@bob 

Quick question.

Will your weather make it up here to Kansas any time soon.  I could really us a break from all these 100 deg days.

harold
harold

@jsadolph

I actually posted on one of the earlier threads some thoughts from Demario Davis.

He said Lankster is not a guy that practices well consistently or does the extra film study etc.

But he is just a really good player when the lights come on.

Just FYI, it gave me the best insight as to why he may be being passed over.

a57se
a57se

@jdb4 

I was probably his MOST ardent supporter but it is painfully obvious to me the kid just doesn't have it.

He has all the physical talent you could want in a guy but the competitiveness doesn't seem to be there with him.

Anthony Randolph
Anthony Randolph

@jdb4 i totally agree. hill is like a pitching prospect who throws 95+ mph with no control or a secondary pitch. i'm just reluctant to give up on him especially since we're thin at receiver. he's been disappointing but it's not like he's totally worthless. i hope he makes it and proves the doubters wrong.

juunit
juunit

He's an athlete not a football player and he simply doesn't get it. I wouldn't hold my breath. You're essentially hoping for him to suddenly become a smarter person.

a57se
a57se

@Aaron Franklin 

Hill was not 22 when he was drafted...he had just turned 21 when drafted...

jsadolph
jsadolph

@Aaron Franklin 

Alshon however has shown great improvement and is a FORCE now.  Hill on the otherhand is scaring noone.

Appearently we tried to trade Hill and had no takers.  If you put Alshon up for trade, you would have a line around the block willing to pay whatever you ask.

See the difference.

a57se
a57se

@jsadolph @bob 

Wanna trade places? I'm in Houston...

Figures, I just checked our weather and it has actullay cooled down here...just a ton of rain in the forecast!

Bent
Bent moderator

@harold


"He said Lankster is not a guy that practices well consistently or does the extra film study etc."


He didn't exactly say it like that, it was more "he doesn't always stand out in practice or do the extra stuff" which might just mean that he is dependable without making flashy plays and showboating to get noticed.

jsadolph
jsadolph

@harold 

Maybe someone should tell him that if he does a little more off the field, his next contract will be more than just a 1 year vet min deal.

jsadolph
jsadolph

@Anthony Randolph @jdb4 

Can you honestly say that he has beat out any of the top 7 WRs on our team?  I can't and that would be grounds for being cut.

Aaron Franklin
Aaron Franklin

@a57se @Aaron Franklin


I know. I am comparing last year's numbers (2013) when he was of 22 years of age to other WR of similar age in their career and their draft status. Additionally, one needs to take into account measurables and ceiling. 

Aaron Franklin
Aaron Franklin

@jsadolph @Aaron Franklin


Huh? So you're saying the ex-post AJ was better at age 23...and since you know Hill can't perform at age 23 like AJ you must be right. Am I correct in that analysis? 


First, we make ex-ante decisions. Second, Hill has not played his age 23 year yet. Let's at least talk after the year to compare him to one of the best WR draft successes. 

jsadolph
jsadolph

@a57se @jsadolph @bob 

I lived down there for a little bit and had enough of it.  We have humidity but not like Houston.  At least when I lived down there we would have a afternoon shower most days.  Up here we miss most of that.

harold
harold

@jsadolph

He actually got two years but your point is well taken.

And to be clear I don't think he was throwing him under the bus.

He was talking about him being a gamer but did introduce some of flaws as well.

a57se
a57se

@jsadolph 

You could probably use some of the rain we've had down here...but it really doesn't help any, just makes it even more humid.

jsadolph
jsadolph

@harold 

With the ball skills that I have seen from the little that I have got to see Lanster, he should be getting a Patterson type deal and not the Vet min.

All he needs is a little exposure.

jsadolph
jsadolph

@Anthony Randolph @jsadolph @jdb4 

So you agree that he is not in the top 7 in camp, but you still want him.  I don't get it.  If he is a rookie I could see it, but he is in his fourth year and still has a timid mentality.

jsadolph
jsadolph

@a57se @jsadolph 

I know that was the worst.  When you step out in the morning and the air is so thick you can't breath, it ruins your whole day.

And I just checked your weather and I might just take you up on your offer to trade places just for the day.  Looks good to me.  I like rain.

Anthony Randolph
Anthony Randolph

@jsadolph @Anthony Randolph @jdb4 no, i'm saying that i don't really see a big difference between hill and gates/salas/hakim. therefore, i would prefer to keep the youngest/most athletic guy of the group. i just don't think keeping hill for one more season at the expense of the other receivers is going to hurt the team.