Daily Links: All We Are Saying…

  • Serby: “Let’s give this guy a chance” [NY Post]
  • Idzik has plenty of supporters [Newsday]
  • Good article on Idzik’s background [ESPN NY]
  • Yards mean nothing – a negative take on the Marty hire [Football Perspective]
  • How Idzik fits in [NYJetsCap]
  • Do you need good receivers to run the WCO? [ESPN AFC East Blog]
  • Sanchez has no direct links to the Te’o hoax, but let’s try and implicate him anyway [NY Post]




57 comments
mikeNYM
mikeNYM

Very disappointed in this off season so far, expected more from Reese and company. There are obvious wholes on this team and they really haven't fixed any of them. Minor type moves aren't going to cut it anymore, Reese needed to step up and get more aggressive, now he puts more pressure on him self to get this years draft right or the Giants will once again be struggling to get to .500.

Michael Frias
Michael Frias

I guess I just look at things with a little more optimism than most, considering this current regime, for better or worse, has given me 2 SB wins to cheer about.  More than any other team in the past 10 seasons other than Pittsburgh, who also won 2.


I honestly think it's just a matter of things going in cycles.  Look at his drafts the past 2 years. Beckham, Moore, Hankins, Pugh, Andre Williams, Kennard (a 5th rounder looking to be a steal), and Richburg all are expected to make major contributions to the team. 


Even 2011 was panning out to be a good draft for Reese if Wilson didn't get injured and forced to retire.


He had a good draft in 2007, an OK one in 2008, then a lot of hits and misses from 2009-2012.


One thing I think we can all agree on though, regardless of past success from this QB-HC-GM trio, this is the last year that a losing record will be tolerated before one or two of them are shown the door.

Skookaloop
Skookaloop

@Michael Frias

QB - HOF

HC = HOF

GM = Average

......... the GIANTS decline, is from the depleted Roster.... no depth

Igwe Jah-Jah Williams
Igwe Jah-Jah Williams

"The issue here continues to be a five-year stretch from 2008-12 during which the Giants got almost nothing out of the draft. They made 38 picks during that time, and we can generously estimate that nine of those picks became NFL starters. I'm counting guys like Jacquian Williams and Rueben Randle there, along with Kenny Phillips, Terrell Thomas, Hakeem Nicks, Will Beatty, Jason Pierre-Paul, Linval Joseph and Prince Amukamara, so you can't say I'm cheating them here."

Of the 38 picks the Giants made during that five-year stretch -- which began seven years ago -- only eight are expected to be on the 2015 roster.

That's a wasteland, folks -- the kind of draft record that would get a GM fired if he didn't: a) work for John Mara; and b) win a Super Bowl at some point during that stretch. But while Jerry Reese's job is not in jeopardy, the mess he's now continually cleaning up is of his own making. The inability to find and develop quality NFL contributors from the second, third and fourth rounds of those drafts is the reason the Giants end up having to sign free agents -- like Jonathan Casillas, J.T. Thomas, Dwayne Harris and Marshall Newhouse -- to fill reserve and special-teams roles, as they did Tuesday. Your reserves and special-teamers are supposed to be the talented-but-underdeveloped guys at the back end of your roster, hungry for and building toward larger opportunity in the future. The Giants' roster doesn't have that class because the bulk of the players they drafted for that five-year stretch have not turned out to be NFL-caliber players."

Graziano: you may not agree with his analysis, but you cant argue with the numbers he is putting in front of you.

Matthew Cohen
Matthew Cohen

@Igwe Jah-Jah Williams There is some truth in this.

On the other hand, if you draft a guy and he takes 2 years to develop, you only have him as a useful asset for 2 years.  Then you have to pay him market rate.  There is not much a difference between paying your guy market rate and a guy from another team market in free agency.

The Giants have had some bad luck with picks blowing up (Wilson, Jones) for non-football reasons. 

Still, the recent drafts look like they show some promise.  The offense looks good.  I hope that they can plug some holes in the secondary.  And we draft high this year.



@Igwe Jah-Jah Williams facts don't lie do they. Every GM makes errors and if you can get to 60% then you are doing good. WE are about 40%. Just look at the O-Line, everyone got old at the same time and the guy from SF who was brought in to play center, couldn;t stay healthy.. 

Igwe Jah-Jah Williams
Igwe Jah-Jah Williams

@Matthew Cohen @Igwe Jah-Jah Williams It is a matter of pattern, Reese does not know how to play markets. He consistently drafts late-rounders in mid-rounds. He consistently drafts UDFAs in late rounds. Then, because he doesnt have the developmental guys to fill the roster, he has to sign other people's trash. And it's just not working.


So, yes. Good to be optomistic if you are into it. But I am a realist and I am just very aware of the pattern that has emerged. 


It's easy to get an Odell Bekham if you reach for him. Can you get Terell Owens? Can you get Darryl Washington a Navaro Bowman, a Julius Thomas? 


To understand what I'm saying about playing the market, think about this:


Julius Thomas was a late 4th round pick....So was Adrien Robinson. Difference? Thomas was a value. Robinson was a massive reach.

blazintommyd
blazintommyd

 @Igwe Jah-Jah Williams - I can't disagree with you but i would add that in regard to the Offensive Line, they ignored that inevitable fact, even when the signs were most apparent and it's because they were/are a pass oriented team under Coughlin and any sort of run blocking scheme just went to waste. They also have a lot of short guys who might be able to bench press a ton but have no leverage against almost anyone that's considerably taller which I believe is one of the sources of so many injuries along with ball carriers trying to do it all on their own

Rob McBurney
Rob McBurney

Reese what have you done lately?? Still patching holes with mediocre players... Draft an O Line player and get Eli some protection

Matthew Cohen
Matthew Cohen

Drafted Odell Beckham Jr.  What have you done lately?

oaklandmet
oaklandmet

Lots of good commentary below.  Jerry Reese is plain and simple not a GM.  I just do not think this guy gets it and I could have wagered any amount of money that the Giants would take this approach to free agency this year.  Last season they made a lot of signings and unfortunately they did not pan out due to injury or poor play.  HOWEVER, after a very poor season the Owner stated that this was a make or break season. Reese has not listened and he is bargain basement shopping to fill out his roster.  Good luck to him when he is working at 7-11 next year.  The Giants need a football guy to run the show and with a combination of good drafts/FA signings you can contend in this League now pretty quickly.  Jerry Reese does not get that and will pay the ultimate price.

Skookaloop
Skookaloop

@oaklandmet

i agree 100% about REESE being a average GM, but we are STUCK with him....

and i like all the moves he did FA.

RB Vereen = A+, perfect fit in MacAdoo's system, Cruz insurance, ran the Slot WR route tree in NE.

OT Newhouse = B+, perfect depth OT at the right price.

WR/KR D. Harris = A+, anything so Beckham never returns a punt again, Cruz insurance, Slot WR.

LB Thomas = C+, good depth player, may have over paid a little.

LB Casillas = B+, we needed a WLB very badly, with Spag's good upside.

still have a little Cash left to find a FS....

.... Draft might look like this: 1. OG Scherff, 2. DT, 3. FS  or 1. DT Shelton, 2. FS, 3. OG

Jaymes Provine
Jaymes Provine

Question ... What OL r u drafting this upcoming draft w a top 10 pick ?! That's first question, but even more so which FS r u drafting w the 40th pick in the 2nd rd !? Even in the 3rd rd you would be reaching on a S in this draft class

*** if Shelton is there at 9 you know i would take him barring on whose there when ther selection comes round ... Keep an eye out for Cooper at 9 if he falls. We all know Reese was at Bama Pro Day yesterday and that he doesn't do that endless he's very serious about said player like last yr it was noted he was in LSU to see OBJ do his thing ...

If it were me I would get everyone to think I was going Cooper there at 9 so if and when he does fall you can bait someone into trading up w you so to move back and acquire another 2nd rd pick ... Trading back HAS to be an option this yR!!!

Matthew Cohen
Matthew Cohen

@Skookaloop @oaklandmet The value in 6-10 of the draft is in pass rushing linebackers.  One of Gregory, Ray and Beasley will fall.  They will require creativity to fit in the Giants' scheme, but Spags is creative.

Skookaloop
Skookaloop

@Matthew Cohen @Skookaloop @oaklandmet

No thanks, i want system FIT, day 1, FootBall Players....

Gregory is a huge Project..... Beasley would not be a 3 down player, hard for me to pick a 2 down player at #9....

Matthew Cohen
Matthew Cohen

@Skookaloop @Matthew Cohen @oaklandmet The issue is that both wideouts, Scherff and Williams could be gone at 9.  That covers much of the ready to play elite prospects.  Shelton is likely a NT and in any case could be gone as well.

Skookaloop
Skookaloop

@Jaymes Provine

Q.#1. the only OL i draft at #9 is, OG - Scherff. but i wouldn't draft him. if i had to draft at #9, i get DT - D. Shelton. but then a LG in the 2nd.

Q.#2. i would trade back the #40 pick for , Pather's 2nd (#57) & 3rd(#89). then draft:

2nd.#57 - FS Cody Prewitt

3rd.#89 - CB/FS Eric Rowe

i want to trade back 4sure,

a lot of value in the second around and the NYG's is Depleted.

Skookaloop
Skookaloop

@Jaymes Provine

if i'm REESE right now,

i tell EVERYBODY i want to trade the 9th pick.

then i put up a Count Down Clock with a Huge picture of Beckham on it " 1st Round - 9th Pick Must, Trade !!! "

blazintommyd
blazintommyd

@Michael Frias @oaklandmet no one can reasonably argue with that, excellent points. I think the frustration from fans (including myself) and the problem with mediocre results is attributed to (1) The Salary Cap AND (2) how the owners chose to accommodate that - i.e.,


They adopted the Tom Coughlin Jacksonville Jaguar model and continued the move away from the Defense oriented teams Parcells built,  into an extension of the Offense oriented team under Reeves and then specifically into a pass oriented team with Gilbride. 


They went to a 4-3 so they wouldn't have to pay top shelf LBs and corners e.g., under Reeves they had this great big guy as MLB, he was the Defense. Under Coughlin they pretty much ignored everything on Defense except for Defensive Ends and a Strong Safety, which with the exception of DRC - in my view their best FA acquisition - that's pretty much the route they're still on.


So with Offense they try to get super duper O Wow receivers for Eli and as long as the Offensive Line can reasonably pass protect that's essentially their game plan. The result is indeed a binomial proposition 50-50 with a Central tendency to 8-8

Skookaloop
Skookaloop

@Matthew Cohen @Skookaloop @oaklandmet

have you watched the tape ??? he runs side-line to side-line.... and i heard he is down to 328 lb's... and more explosive...

he hired a combine coach and a nutritionist. he's in it, to win it !!!

Matthew Cohen
Matthew Cohen

@Skookaloop @Matthew Cohen @oaklandmet 

It's not about running sideline to sideline (velocity).  It's about that first step and beating an athletic tackle around the edge (acceleration).  He's a defensive tackle.  Maybe he could be a 3-4 DE.  Maybe.  

Michael Frias
Michael Frias

@oaklandmet  So, the fact that he drafted the rookies that all were part of the SB42 team (Ross, Steve Smith, Bradshaw, Boss, DeOssie, Jay Alford, etc.), drafted Hakeem Nicks, JPP, Will Beatty (for better or worse), Mario Manningham, Linval Joseph, Prince Amukamara, along with signing Antrelle Rolle, Deon Grant, and Chris Canty, all major contributors to the SB46 team.


All that means nothing to you?  Take a look around the league, name ANY GM, and I can give you a list of at least a dozen bad draft picks, signings, or trades they made.  You guys make it out like they Giants haven't won in 20 years and are coming off a 2 win season.  6-10, when a good majority of the skill position players are already in place, can turn into 10-6 or better really fast.

mikey56
mikey56

What would you like Reese to do?? He has 20 million spent on Eli.  Another 15 million on JPP.  Cruz and Beatty both over 8 million. Over 50 million for 4 guys!!!! But at the time of signings everyone thought they were good moves.  I still think JPP was the wrong move but that's for another day.  Point is in the NFL its a 3-5 year cycle with every team having money to spend. If you really expected the Giants to spend "real money" this year you don't understand the financial aspects of the game.

David Lopez
David Lopez

I'm not going to pretend like I'm privvy to inside information, but am I missing something? Why hasn't Reese approached Eli about restructuring his deal, or conversely why hasn't Elim shown initiative and offered to restructure his deal to make it more cap friendly?

Eli and JPP's contracts are accounting for a sizable chunk of the franchise's cap space and on the surface look to be detrimental to the team's prospects to win next season.

Matthew Cohen
Matthew Cohen

@mikey56 Please stop with all of this reality, it makes my head hurt.  Math scmath.

Matthew Cohen
Matthew Cohen

@David Lopez Eli is making $20 million per year.  That's market for a quarterback.  You can push some money into future years but that's robbing Peter to pay Paul.  There isn't really anything to restructure unless they want to do that or Eli wants to take less than market.

jaymanjay
jaymanjay

We want him to start investing in top talent instead of investing in 6 or 7 low level talent guys and claiming they are for depth. Let me tell you something the guy who can't beat out Beatty for the LT job must be really awful. Our linebackers have also been awful so who are the guys who are backing them? Back ups are just that BACKUPS meaning you hope to god they never play because your starters are supposed to be really good. Only the Giants starters are not very good.

And whose fault was that giving the majority of the cap to 4 guys? Reese!!! So because he made decisions that didn't work out he has to continue to make more poor decisions to legitimize old ones get real. Stop trying to make excuses for the management and see this offsets on for what it has been so far a failure. It's a failure because maybe you can argue they have not gotten any worse but they surely have not gotten better.

Michael Frias
Michael Frias

@mikey56  I truly think that Fantasy sports and Madden Football has ruined people's idea of what it takes to build a successful franchise.  The idea of "Sign this guy. If he doesn't work out, cut him and sign someone else".  Sign a superstar at all 22 positions, and sign the 22 backups for NFL minimum deals works in Madden NFL Franchise mode, because no one ever gets hurt. 


It's not like players are lining up to sign 1-year non-guaranteed "show me" deals just to play for the NY Giants.


The idea of dropping and adding players with little to no future repercussions is fantasy talk.  The idea of going all out, signing everyone regardless of price, is just a flawed way of looking at things. "They should've got Suh, they could've traded for McCoy, they should've made a run at Murray."


It's not as simple as sign and trade for everyone, and if it doesn't work, just reset the game and lower the difficulty level.

jaymanjay
jaymanjay

Like I said in previous posts I think Reese is trying bring Money Ball to the NFL. He continues to dumpster dive looking for throw away parts he can underpay and hope they over achieve.

This is the NFL not baseball where a singular talent can be quantified in a more individualistic sport like baseball. Football has specialist but for the most part the best players are the ones who do almost everything well at there position. For example in baseball you can have a guy who hits 40 Homers but bats .240 or a guy who can't hit but is a A plus defensive guy. Football requires more well round skill sets to reach all pro level or teams will take advantage of these flaws. Example: Osi later in his career was still great at sacks but he stopped being an all pro talent because his run defense became a liability. Thats why acculating as many all pro or potential all pro talent is a must. Reese needs to stop trying to play Money ball in the Nfl.

lagaresfamiliafan
lagaresfamiliafan

@jaymanjay Well you can get a bunch of guys good at different guys like the Seahawks on their defensive line. Our offense this year is going to be great. As long the guys stay healthy on defense we will be good.

Dear John, 

The GMEN, with the exception of Vereen are no better than last year and maybe someone should look into why for for two consecutive season's we led the league in man-games lost due to injury. 


The Giants FA moves in 2014 were marginal at best

and so far in 2015 that performance continues. We need 2 CB'c, a real threat at RB, 2 OL's 2 DL's , 2 Safety's , 2 good LB's, and I just don;t see that happening in the draft. GM Reese has made some good  picks, but overall, just average or below average. Giants headed to another no playoff season and maybe 6 wins or so. I don't know how anyone can see it another way.

lagaresfamiliafan
lagaresfamiliafan

You are being to greedy. We need a real threat at running back? We don't need a pro bowler at every position. Vereen+Jennings+Williams=COMPLETE top 10 rb and maybe best rb trio in the league. I think 1 more cb will be good possibly someone in the draft. Yes we need a bit more OL, but our first draft pick will be one. Definitely need more DL. Saftey is a must. Beason will return I can feel it. Kennard is an absolute beast. So we have 2 good Lbs and a couple of decent ones. Our offense will be one of the best in the league and our division has a lot of questions. You are forgetting we still haven't had the draft.

@lagaresfamiliafan


this team needs real good players. There is only one OL that any team would want and that is Pugh. Jennings proved to be unreliable. Williams is a cruncher but has no clue about being a RB.Vereen is a 3rd down guy.  Beason has been injured more than he has played in his career. Who  is going to play opposite Pierre Paul on the other DE and who is going to back them up. Hankins is a load up front and that gives us 2, countem 2 Defensive Lineman. TE is very questionable, Randle and the Kid look good as a tandem but what if Cruz is done ? Kevin Ogletree, come on. The team needed to do better in FA. The draft will bring 2, maybe 3 players who could start, Maybe.


You guys just dont' get it. 

lagaresfamiliafan
lagaresfamiliafan

 @lagaresfamiliafan You act like it's so easy to sign guys, but the problem is there aren't many guys out there in FA we could get for a reasonable price. If we can have a healthy Schwartz our line should be set except for tackle (draft a guy). Williams just needed time to adjust and showed some flashes of greatness pair with Vereen and then your set. TE is a question, but I think Donnell will be better in his second year as a starter. Our offense is set and if our defense sucks then we can be like the 2011 Packers. 

jaymanjay
jaymanjay

NO John depth in NFL is a luxury Talent is a Must.

Reese doesn't seem to get this basic principle. Who cares about depth if your starter a b rate talent meaning if your not starting on the Giants you are even lower then average. The Giants are an average to bad football team. They very few all pros on the roster. You got Eli, JPP (maybe), CRUZ (if healthy), OBJ, and Maybe Hankins might get there. Only one of these guys actually made the pro bowl. So you have these guys and then the talent falls off a cliff.

So again Reese can fill the back end of the roster with depth all he wants but unless he addresses the talent on the starting roster we will still go no where. In my book the Giants have still done very little to improve.

urda83
urda83

4 FREE AGENTS I WANT TO SEE THE GIANTS SIGN BEFORE THE DRAFT.


1.  RAHIM MOORE - Give him a long term deal.  He is our next Antrel Rolle but he is 25.


2.  STEVIE BROWN - We still need another Safety even with the Moore signing, because all we got is Cooper Taylor and Nat Berhe.  Let Stevie Brown compete with Cooper and Nat for the other starter at Safety.  Giants are strapped for cash... So this is the best route we can take.


3.  ZACK BOWMAN - This Cornerback has fantastic hands!  He did a great job stepping up last year when Prince and Trumaine went down.  Adds great depth.  If the Giants let him walk... man that is just a bad decision.


4.  DANIEL FELLS - I know what you are thinking.... WHY?!?!?  Well couple reasons.... Giants are strapped for cash... Larry Donnell is already back as our starter... Daniel Fells seemed to catch everything thrown to him last year.... Daniel Fells knows our system... Daniel Fells had what... 6 or 7 Touchdowns last year for the Giants???  Yeah he did!.... He is cheap and is a great backup!


COME DRAFTDAY - DO NOT TAKE A DT WITH THE NUMBER 9 PICK!  OUR NUMBER 9 PICK SHOULD BE AN OFFENSIVE LINEMEN!!!! BRANDON SCHERFF WELCOME TO THE GIANTS!


GIANTS STARTING OFFENSIVE LINE - LT - Will Beatty, LG - Brandon Scherff, C - Weston Richburg, RG - Geoff Schwartz, RT - Justin Pugh


SECOND ROUND PICK - NOW WE CAN TAKE A DEFENSIVE LINEMAN... OUR OFFENSIVE LINE NEEDS MORE HELP.... IF YOU NEED A REMINDER WATCH THAT GAME VS THE EAGLES FROM LAST YEAR AGAIN TO REMEMBER HOW BAD OUR OFFENSIVE LINE WAS!

Skookaloop
Skookaloop

@urda83

thats a really really good plan, but i get rid of TE Fells,

we aint winning a SB in 2015,

TE Fells is over 30 and ELI needs a TE for the next 4 years to develop chemistry with.

1. OG Scherff

2. DT best Fit for Spag's system

3. TE Clive Walford

Skookaloop
Skookaloop

@Michael Stewart @Skookaloop @urda83

... with the way FA went,

we are drafting a OG in the 1st or 2nd round,

WR Cruz - WR Beckham - WR Randle - WR/KR D. Harris - WR Parker - WR Ogletree - WR Washington - WR Soup Harris - WR J. Criner......

RB Vereen, run the Slot WR route tree in NE....

Skookaloop
Skookaloop

@Michael Stewart @Skookaloop @urda83

i know...... but there is a chance he slips,

i have him rated as a late 2nd rounder, between:

Raven's , Green Bay, Pat's....

3rd round:

Tampa, Raiders or ATL.... NYG's !!!