Daily Links: Are we all in agreement?

  • Five SB panelists, including three ex-Jets, agree Sanchez should go [ESPN NY]
  • Winslow should avoid suspension [Star Ledger]
  • Is Mike Vick a fit as a potential week one stopgap starter for Jets? [NFL.com]
  • Joe Namath plagued by health issues resulting from concussions [NY Daily News]
  • Ex-Jet Marquice Cole acting as unofficial tour guide for Broncos [The Record]
  • Beverly: Thinking back to SBIII “never gets old” [Randy's Radar]



116 comments
frustjetfn
frustjetfn

What a mess: Sanchez should go, but he's the best and only proven NFL QB on the team. As GM, it's up to Idzik to clear up this mess and after a year's grace period he must step up / show his stuff this year.

So will he let the team hang with an unproven, inconsistent second rounder or will he take deliberate steps to improve the most important position on his team? We've all seen he's so low key he makes Woody seem like Mohammed Ali in comparison, but is there clear, concise, analytical decision making in his make-up? We'll soon find out. A GM can't hide forever; especially in the media capital of the world.

a57se
a57se

Would you trade this years 2nd round pick and a conditional 3rd round pick in 2015 to the Pittsburgh Steelers for Ben Roethlisberger?

levi
levi

Should we bring back Winslow? Geno seemed to have good chemistry with him.

a57se
a57se

I don't see any good options for the Jets at QB unless they try and trade for Rapistberger.........There have been some rumors that Pittsburgh would be amenable to moving their resident Rapist as his contract is coming up.

Even doing something like that would leave me conflicted as I can't stand the guy but realize he would be a huge upgrade.


Besides that unlikely scenario, I am not that keen on bringing in some 30+ something guy to have as a back-up in case Geno craps the bed in 2014. He doesn't need a mentor who can't play, he has coaches that he should be relying on.

I'd rather spend a late round pick on a developmental QB and continue coaching up SImms and Geno. Let's see how much progress Geno can make with another off-season program under his belt and more hard work with David Lee.

Brendan
Brendan

@frustjetfn  I will never understand how people act like he didn't do anything in the past 12 months. 

frustjetfn
frustjetfn

@a57se Yes. I'm not a Big Ben fan, but the S@B gets the job done by being impossible to bring down (i.e. extending plays). I do think Garoppolo could be the same type of QB on the NFL level and while not my favorite in the draft, should be available.

levi
levi

@a57se  Thats an awful lot to give up for a back up QB. Geno is the starter.

frustjetfn
frustjetfn

@a57se Interesting. If the Bucs go all in for Carr & have no ties to Mike Glennon, I'd pull him in if I had the chance & let him compete w/Geno. I liked his attributes (huge, strong arm, game smarts) going into last year's draft & now he has some pro games under his belt. - In the wild & crazy GM-changing NFL, you never know who'll become available. Stranger things have happened.

a57se
a57se

@levi  

NO. We don't need Pee Wee Herman on the team.

Brendan
Brendan

@jake100  The reason not to sign Vick is his play. The dog fighting thing has nothing to do with it, don't bring up "circus" and stuff like that. The discussion doesn't need to go outside the white lines. 

Pat d
Pat d

McCown would beat Geno in a competition at QB

frustjetfn
frustjetfn

@Brendan @frustjetfnIt's not all or nothing. He did what he could under severe constraints, but this year is when he has enough freedom to put his stamp on the Idzik regime.

Brendan
Brendan

@frustjetfn You are not getting a SB champion QB in his prime without giving up a 1st. 100 out of 100 people should answer yes to that question, but that's like asking if I'd like a free million dollars. 

frustjetfn
frustjetfn

@levi @a57seBased on what, blind belief that he will develop into something special? Too bad the NFL still keeps score and W-L records count. A team's success is based on production on the field, not belief. No way Geno is a proven NFL caliber starter at this time.

bradysucks
bradysucks

I'd bring back Winslow if he takes the veteran minimum. He is a talented receiver and should the Jets draft a guy like Ebron at TE I'd be all for a 2 TE set with Winslow and Ebron. That is a tough match up for a defense and would help open thing up for the wideouts

levi
levi

@a57se Haha I wonder if anyone will sign him...

johnnyl65
johnnyl65

@jaygo @a57se  We are going to compete at every position,no one will be handed a starting position they will have to earn it.

                                                                                         John Idzik

a57se
a57se

@jaygo

What is your beef here? My comment that you just responded to or the past?

I basically said we should see how much Geno progresses this year and you have a problem with that?

Pat d
Pat d

If the officials let the Seahawks play they will win. In fact it could be a blow out of at least 14 points

Brendan
Brendan

@jaygo Lynch will be a man possessed. They are going to be showing him photos of a swimming pool filled with Skittles all game on the sideline. Run, baby, run!

a57se
a57se

@Pat d  

Even if McCown could beat out Geno, McCown is not the future and we are not a win now team. Idzik is trying to build this team into a sustainable, winning franchise. Bringing in McCown does nothing to help that cause.

Brendan
Brendan

@Pat d  Yeah, the guy with a career 77 QB rating who was playing on one of the most talented offenses in the NFL would have no problem replicating his HUGE OUTLIER season with a lesser supporting cast and a full slate of games instead of spot duty like he had in Chicago. 

Brendan
Brendan

@frustjetfn Right, so why can't we give him credit for the good work he did under severe constraints? That's just as important to a GM's skillset as "how do you spent a crapload of draft picks and free cap space," no? 

a57se
a57se

@SackDance99 @a57se

Fair points all, so what would you think the Steelers would take for him?

They may not want to pay him what he thinks he is worth........I posted a link to a report from Charlie Campbell about Ratface and the Steelers....they may just want to move him and get what they can.....what do you think he is worth?

SackDance99
SackDance99

@a57se @Brendan@frustjetfnBig Ben has been in 3 SBs, won 2 and is by anyone's measure an elite NFL QB.  Alex Smith?  No comparison between the two and I was pounding the table for the Jets to trade for Alex last year.

a57se
a57se

@Brendan @frustjetfn 

That may be true but it is the same basic deal SF took from KC. Ratface is in the last year of his contract as well as having a history of being accused of rape.

Joe De Sr.
Joe De Sr.

The Jets will never be a winner with Geno at QB !

harold
harold

@levi @frustjetfn


I doubt very seriously the Steelers will trade Ben without getting at least one and maybe two first round picks in return.

levi
levi

@frustjetfn Yes, it was a joke. Ben is a good QB and would certainly be an upgrade. That being said I wish the Jets could get there own QB and develop him. Im not saying thats Geno Im just saying I want my own QB not some guy who will always be known as the rapist who won a SB in Pittsburgh.

frustjetfn
frustjetfn

@a57se @frustjetfn@leviLOL. I sure hope so, but there are some blind faithful who believe any story line the team is forced to sell because they have no other options. We dedicated fans have to be the ones to hold management's feet to the fire & keep them striving for a winner. - I admit, true believers / unquestioning minds / lemmings scare me. :)

Pat d
Pat d

Actually I don't see many sacks. With pressure up front and disrupting the receivers at the line is what is needed from the Seahawks D.

a57se
a57se

@Pat d  

You think their defense is that good? Unless they are sacking Manning left and right, I don't see a blow out happening.

a57se
a57se

@Pat d  

The Denver O is nothing like the 49'ers O. 

Pat d
Pat d

The Denver D is nothing like the 49ers D. I laugh when people say if it wasn't for this play then they wouldn't have won

a57se
a57se

@jake100

Hey Joey, doesn't that sound just like the Jets rushing offense in 2009 when they led the league?

Brendan
Brendan

@jaygo Lynch is one of the few non-QB's who can go into a zone that normal humans don't have and just win a game on his own. Not "on his own" literally, but he can have such a tremendous, clock-eating, tackle-breaking, yard-grinding, back-breaking performance that it breaks the will of the Broncos and thus, their chance at winning. 


Very few players are in this category that don't touch the ball every play. 


It will be really fun to see how the defenses hold up. Both teams know what the other wants to do, it'll be a battle of wills out there. 

Brendan
Brendan

@jake100 But since you can't eliminate a 58 yard run, he didn't average 2.5 yards. 


Chip away at an elite run defense with a guy like Lynch and it starts to crack. He's too big, too fast and too agile. 

Brendan
Brendan

@jake100 The media has a "field day" no matter what, they're unruly and classless and will make stuff up if the team doesn't give them what they need. 


Vick shouldn't be signed because of the football player he is currently. 

Brendan
Brendan

@jake100 "He performed so well many were actually questioning if he should have stayed in even when Jay came back healthy!"


The only idiots that thought this are the same idiots who think Cam Talbot had a legitimate chance at unseating Henrik Lundqvist with the Rangers. 

thehelmet
thehelmet

@Brendan @Pat d  Get Ebron and a decent FA WR for Geno (Maclin maybe?) and you'll see Geno improve a lot.  As much as I like Cumby, his hands are made of bricks.

thehelmet
thehelmet

@Brendan @Pat d  Get Ebron and a decent FA WR and you'll see a huge improvement from Geno.  As much as I like Cumby, the guy has hands of stone

a57se
a57se

@Brendan

I am sure johnny knows this as well as I but that isn't the point.

The point is that we still haven't found the answer at QB and so we should keep looking. That doesn't eliminate Geno from the equation, it just acknowledges that as you said, Geno has a ways to go BUT it also acknowledges that HE MAY NOT ever get there.

Brendan
Brendan

@johnnyl65 Can you please stop putting words in my mouth. Geno has quite a ways to go, I have never said otherwise. But the QB position is unlike a TE, OT, OG, RB or WR. It takes the most time to develop, it takes much more mental training as physical and history dictates that QB's need time to grow whereas a good rookie OT can block guys out of the gate. 


I know you know this, I just don't get why I have to bring it up. QB is a special position in the entire sports universe, using a boiler plate development scale for them is not logical. 

johnnyl65
johnnyl65

@a57se  Cumberland played well but it's alright to replace him,same goes for Howard,Colon,Ivory,Hill it's all good until you bring up Geno who is obviously beyond reproach.

a57se
a57se

@Brendan  

Get a clue Brendan, I've been saying Geno is going to start for us in 2014 since the season ended.

JohnnyI65 isn't saying Geno isn't going to start either.

We just don't want the Jets to ignore the QB position until they determine whether Geno is the long term answer or not. Shaun Hill is not a long term answer, I'd rather they draft a developmental guy like Mettenberger, Fales, McCarron, Matthews or Thomas......

Brendan
Brendan

@johnnyl65  In case you've missed it, I've stated numerous times that my preferred plan is: sign Shaun Hill, keep Geno the starter, and develop Simms some more. 


You need a franchise QB, Geno needs to play to prove whether he is or is not that player. You don't sign "competition" for him, because it's a farce. You sign insurance in case he gets hurt or turns into Sanchez 2.0 (Hill) and keep a young arm on the roster that you're comfortable with. 


He's already earned the right to return as the starter. He finished the season 3-1 with an 7:1 TD:INT ratio. That's enough to anoint him the 2014 starter, unless something unexpected happens (like Teddy B falling to the 18th pick, or someone pulling a Mangini and giving a top-5 pick away or whatever). 


Geno's the starter, you, 57 and everyone else should just come to grips with that now. The team is focused on improving the team around him, but he's the starter. 

a57se
a57se

@johnnyl65  

The 34th ranked QB in the NFL in 2013 seems to sum up the season very well to me. Did Geno flash competency at times, Yes. That is the reason for hope just like most rookie QB's.

 That doesn't mean you don't plan for the MOST likely scenario that he doesn't ever become consistent enough to be good.


johnnyl65
johnnyl65

@Brendan @johnnyl65  The fact that he's one of the worst is the basis to my only argument that there's nothing wrong with bringing in better talent and making him earn it.

Brendan
Brendan

@johnnyl65 When was I arguing Geno is one of the best QB's in the league? Don't change the argument. 

johnnyl65
johnnyl65

@Brendan @johnnyl65  I guess you must be right 12 t.d.s, 21 interceptions must be what all the best QB's are doing these days in the age of the pass. Stats only prove I don't have a clue.

Brendan
Brendan

@johnnyl65 If you took yours off, and didn't scout box scores with cursory glances, you'd see that I'm right. 

Brendan
Brendan

@johnnyl65  And to address the comments of that little parrot on your shoulder: 


In the Cleveland Browns game, 2nd half, game tied 10-10 the Jets marched down the field on a scoring drive (when they had to keep scoring) using a 9 pass, 5 run drive. In the Raiders game, with the game firmly in-hand and the Jets just needing to keep a double-digit lead, they ran 18 run plays to 10 pass plays in the 2nd half. 


The way these games went dictated the playcalling, and the Jets were up late in three of the four. The offense improved because they stopped going conservative when the game was still in question. Teams stopped stacking the box when Geno started hitting receivers. And the run-heavy times were only coming late in games with the Jets likely to win. If a game was still in question, the Jets were still throwing it. 

johnnyl65
johnnyl65

@Brendan @johnnyl65  excuses,excuses. If you take those blinders off you'd be amazed that you could see the whole road.

Brendan
Brendan

@johnnyl65  You want to take games where, in 3 of the 4, the team held late leads and got to run out the clock? That makes no sense. 


The team passed as much as they did early in the year, before they hit the skids in that middle block. You are wrong in saying the team (and Geno) played better because they went to a conservative gameplan. That's what they did to cause their slump, not get out of it. 

a57se
a57se

@johnnyl65  

2013 NY Jets run/pass ratio was:

50.3% Run, 49.7% pass....

Average MM run pass ratio prior to joining the Jets:

43% run, 57% pass

DING! DING! DING! WE HAVE A WINNER!

johnnyI65!!!!!!

johnnyl65
johnnyl65

@Brendan @johnnyl65  No,run/pass ratio passing less is comparitive to the amount of plays .

So when I say passed less I mean percentage wise not actual attempts.

Brendan
Brendan

@johnnyl65 Seriously? If I want to prove this statement wrong: "At the end of the season when he got better it was because MM ran the ball more and passed less" I shouldn't use passing attempts? 

johnnyl65
johnnyl65

@Brendan @johnnyl65  If you're going to prove me wrong passing attempts isn't how you do it. You have to use run/ pass ratio. I personally believe with the eye test that we passed more because we ran more effectively and moved the chains more which means more snaps. So I'll wait for you to break it down.

Brendan
Brendan

@johnnyl65 Sorry, but you're wrong. The offense didn't go conservative in the final four games. They attempted 25, 28, 36 and 27 passes in the final 1/4 of the year. Geno's average attempts/game? 27. So, they passed MORE in the final 4 games than they did on average, not less. 


And the shotgun stuff is so over-analyzed. Count how many times Peyton Manning snaps the ball from under center on Sunday. Geno needs to improve his play and where he takes a snap will be irrelevant. Let's not ignore the fact that the pistol formation is now a regular formation used by a lot of NFL teams now. 

johnnyl65
johnnyl65

@Brendan @johnnyl65  Really? We couldn't call plays under center so we had to change to shotgun ,which limits play calling . At the end of the season when he got better it was because MM ran the ball more and passed less and he had to simplify the routes calling shorter passes and since the defenses weren't respecting him.


MM called designed runs for him to get the corners not jumping his routes so much. I would like nothing better for Geno to be the guy and tear things up I just don't have faith in that given what he's done to this point and the extreme amount of adjustments Marty has to make just to have him on the field.

a57se
a57se

@Brendan

    So what kind of production would you expect from a 34 year old back-up with the talent the Jets had last season? 

Would you expect 25 turnovers from the guy? I wouldn't.

Would you expect him to constantly be late throwing the ball to his receivers? I wouldn't.

Would expect him to constantly not see or throw the ball to wide open receivers? I wouldn't.

Would you expect him to not recognize blitzes or make proper line adjustments? I wouldn't

Would you expect him to stare down his primary receiver all the time?  I wouldn't.


I don't want McCown and I am on board with Geno starting in 2014........I am not on board with sugar coating everything.

Brendan
Brendan

@bklyndude I am saying playing with B-Marshall, Jeffrey, Matt Forte and Martellus Bennett, one of the best WCO groupings in the NFL, absolutely helped McCown's numbers. 


I wasn't speaking to how Geno would have done with them, but was instead pointing out you will be downgrading the offensive talent across the board for McCown if he was brought here to fight for a starting job, and he's not that good of a QB. He didn't reinvent himself as a 34 year old back-up QB. He just had ridiculous talent around him. 

bklyndude
bklyndude

@Brendan @johnnyl65

Are you saying that playing with Brandon Marshall and Alson Jeffrey may have helped Josh McCowan put up career numbers.

And that if Geno Smith played with same players he might have put up better numbers ?

Brendan
Brendan

@johnnyl65  Why do you keep saying he got pulled from five games. It was three, and one of them he could have finished (Buffalo). 


He got better at the end of the season because he was a rookie who learned from his experience as a rookie. 

johnnyl65
johnnyl65

@a57se @johnnyl65  He got pulled from five freaking games .

How many QB's get pulled from five games and still start?But yeah lets place blame everywhere else but where it belongs. 

He got better at the end of the season because we have a world class OC who made great adjustments in play calling to make him look better.

Brendan
Brendan

@johnnyl65 What world do you live in? Why is it only "last year" that matters? When did that become a rule? 


You basing your ENTIRE judgement on a season where the guy had the best skill position players possibly in the entire NFL is wrong. 


Geno also doesn't get paid millions, adjust your sights, Johnny. 

a57se
a57se

@johnnyl65

Geno was the best, what's the matter with you?? Are you a racist or something? Maybe you are just a Hater who loves to HATE! Just look at how good he played in the games we won!! Just look at his stats when Kerley played!! Even Better, just look at his stats when he was throwing the ball to whoever Justin Rogers was covering!! He is is going to be a beast!!! You just wait and see!

johnnyl65
johnnyl65

@Brendan @johnnyl65  All that matters is what they both did last year. I'm not judging a guy based on what he did two years ago . I also don't want Vick or McCown as Jets I just can't make an argument for them not to be based on what we have now in the talent department.

More talent at WR isn't that what you say? I've seen plenty of open receivers who haven't gotten the ball despite how much talent they had. 

Why is it wrong to want better talent at the QB position? He's still going to be on the team with a chance to compete for a starting position.

He sucked last year,I don't care that he was a rookie he's the starter and gets paid millions not to suck.

Brendan
Brendan

@johnnyl65  You're making my head hurt. 


McCown has a career you can look at. You want to take the one year that is WAY WAY WAY better than any other year when his offense was WAY WAY WAY better than the Jets' current offense and act like if he's brought in it's a clear-cut victory for him in a QB competition. The guy has reeked of average QB play since he entered the league, you are trying to tell me the light bulb went off in his mid-30's? 

johnnyl65
johnnyl65

@Brendan @johnnyl65  Last years stats,rookie, ten years in the league all that doesn't matter. Were talking facts and the fact is you can compare two QB's playing in the same season. You can't compare the stats of a backup to the stats of a starter.

Brendan
Brendan

@johnnyl65 I'm sorry? What stats? You posted Geno Smith's stats from his rookie season on an offensively depleted roster. Then you want to compare them to Josh McCowns FAR-AND-AWAY-BEST stats ever. Everrrrr. Never got close to the stats that he got with the Bears last year. You want to use those stats with that offensive roster as a realistic jumping off point on how he'd play on this team? 


But my comments are funny. Right. 

johnnyl65
johnnyl65

@Brendan @johnnyl65  I find it funny you're even attempting to defend your argument in the face of stats that totally dispute what you are saying.

johnnyl65
johnnyl65

@harold  All that matters is what you've done last,you know that.

harold
harold

@johnnyl65 @Brendan@Pat d


Go Look at McGown's career stats before his half season stretch w/Marshall, Jeffrey, Forte and Bennett.  You guys are just jumping on anything.  Plus McGown had several dropped INT's during his hot streak.  Don't believe the hype on that one.

johnnyl65
johnnyl65

@Brendan @Pat d  109 rating in 2013,13 t.d.'s one interception in 8 games. 

Geno 66.5 rating, 12 t.d.,21 int. 16 games but got pulled from was it 4 or 5 otherwise his stats would be even worse.