Daily Links: Hands off!




267 comments
jdb4
jdb4

Thinking about this Revis trade discussion I think there is an ideal landing spot for him: Cleveland.


Pettine obviously knows him and how to utilize his strengths.  The Browns have the necessary cap space and a butt load of draft picks.  The owner is so desperate to win over his fan base and is clearly willing to spend money to win.  


I can see the Browns making this trade for maybe a 2nd round pick, possibly an extra 3rd or 4th.

J. Smooth
J. Smooth

I REALLY, REALLY hope Allen Robinson falls down to us at 49. He'd be terrific for us.

J. Smooth
J. Smooth

I know it's unpopular, but if we're strictly keeping a QB around to be a backup/spot starter for Geno, I'd rather take Sanchez. This is, of course, assuming that the Jets are unable to find any worthwhile trade for him.  Just comparing him to Vick, he's six years younger, has a better health track record, and has a very comparable rapport with Mornhinweg, since you have to figure that he spent a lot of time with Marty on the sidelines. The real bummer this year was that I thought Sanchez would actually thrive in Mornhinweg's offense, since it concealed his lack of size and pocket presence and put an emphasis on short intermediate throws. 


Another big part is this: Sanchez is still young. If, on the .001% chance that he actually puts it together, he is still young enough to be a viable medium-term option. People forget that this guy actually won several games for those teams in 2010 and 2011 (NE, HOU, etc.)

SackDance99
SackDance99

@jdb4 With Joe Haden, that's a lot of $$$ tied into CB when the team has many other holes....

Brendan
Brendan

@J. Smooth  In a vacuum, sure, Mark could figure it out enough to be a backup. 


I just don't think he has that chance if he stays here. The media already has their narrative on him, as do the fans. I think it's best to let him try and figure it out elsewhere, and we as fans just wish him the best in that. 

SackDance99
SackDance99

@J. Smooth Sanchez has no rapport with Marty.  In fact, fans seem to forget how much Sanchez struggled in camp (after working with Jeff Garcia, who had been MM's go to QB) and in pre-season.  Vick had 2 of his best NFL seasons under MM, knows his offense and showed last year that he was a good mentor.  Plus, to be real competition for Geno, the back up has to be able to execute MM's offense competently.  "Competence" doesn't come to mind when reviewing Sanchez's pro career.

bklyndude
bklyndude

@a57se  Do you project Beckham as a number one WR and any concerns about him transitioning to the pro game.

I wonder how he will do against the better CB's when they press him at the LOS.

J. Smooth
J. Smooth

@a57se  Love the idea of Beckham but if we take him I think we would have to take a bigger weapon in round 2, like a ASJ, DaVante Adams, etc.

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se  I'll bet you that the Mets have a better record than the Yanks this year. 

Pat d
Pat d

I agree Sanchez will move on but it better not have anything to do with the media or the fans

J. Smooth
J. Smooth

@Brendan @J. Smooth  You're probably right. But every time I see an article about Sanchez, I just think back to three years ago, and think "How the hell did this happen?". The Jets-Sanchez thing really should have worked. Young, good-looking QB with charisma and high potential shows up on Broadway as the next Joe Namath, and plays very well for flashes. That 4th year should've been the next step, but it wasn't. It's scarred me from nearly all optimism about QBs in the future.

Bytor
Bytor

I'd almost be tempted to take a bet that the Yanks will have double the wins as the Mets.

J. Smooth
J. Smooth

@Brendan @a57se  Easy there. I'm as big a Mets fan as any, but this is the year where the Mets "load" the hypothetical bullets for this team in 2015. A better bet would be I bet the Mets have a better record NEXT year over the Yanks. Yanks will win this year, maybe 85-90 games, but the Mets are going to be winning for a very long time after 2015.

levi
levi

@a57se   Whys that? Its not a random attack. Ive been saying for weeks I would like Byrd so Im not counting the tag to be fact until it happens. If you cant take a little criticism about your hypocritical behavior on a blog without resorting to threats and name calling you obviously have anger issues.

levi
levi

@a57se So its common knowledge that Byrd will be franchised but everything else you have argued about today has to be proven within the shadow of a doubt to be fact? Youre impossible to have a rational discussion with at this point.

jdb4
jdb4

@a57se  

Can't argue about the depth at WR but... it's the Browns

jdb4
jdb4

@a57se @jdb4 

Yeah, it's something I have thought about, I imagine Pettine would like to have both Mingo and Mack.  I have to imagine though that he knows he needs to score points.  Cameron, Gordon and Watkins would be tough to stop for most teams. Hoyer could hold the fort for one more season or say Shaub gets cut, they could sign him.

jdb4
jdb4

@a57se @jdb4 

I didn't want to reference it because it is lying season but Daniel Jeremiah had a story about the Browns wanting Carr on NFL.com.  


I also see him as a better fit for the Browns then I do Manziel.  I think he fits better in Kyle Shanahans offense.

SackDance99
SackDance99

@a57se @BrendanAnd, I said "If, say, Byrd hits free agency...."  Your reading comprehension isn't at its peak today.

jdb4
jdb4

@a57se @jdb4@Brendan 

Who's to know?  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  Just because most of use think the other 3 are better, the only thing that matters is what Farmer and Pettine think. 


Most of the people on this board love Watkins, maybe the Browns love Watkins more than those three QBs.

jdb4
jdb4

@Brendan @jdb4 

True, they need a QB. With the supposed increase in cap space though they could afford it.  

Let's say they follow my top ten mock from the other day, they draft Watkins 4 then with thier other 1st they take Derek Carr. 

Then they fill out the rest of their roster with the remaining draft picks. 

They have almost $50 million in cap space.  Ward is going to get $8 million per year.  Haden will get $10 million per Mack will get $6.5 million per year.  


So that is $24 million.  So $26 million remaining. Lets say they trade for Revis, they can convert his base salary to bonus and lower his number. 


I'm not claiming it will happen, I'm exploring the plausibility of the trade.

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se It hasn't happened yet, so I wouldn't assume it is going to no matter how likely it seems. 

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se Depends who Pettine would prefer, the elite safety he just coached, or the elite safety he's (potentially) about to coach. 


They're not very similar players, so it's about preference, I would think. 



Also, Byrd is getting franchised from what I've read, so it may be a moot discussion. 

Brendan
Brendan

@jdb4 The Browns who know him very well (Pettine), and have bigger issues than CB. 

SackDance99
SackDance99

@jdb4 @SackDance99True, but Pettine could use Haden in the Revis role and spend resources at other positions.  If, say, Byrd hits free agency, then I can see the Browns all over him.

Brendan
Brendan

@jaygo I think some fans do with Vick, but since most of us haven't had personal experience with rooting for him or seeing him operate as a teammate, we can be swayed. There's still wiggle room with him, in other words. 


The media is the media and they'll be scum regardless, Idzik just has to keep shutting them down like he's been doing. 

Brendan
Brendan

@J. Smooth I used to do that, but when I was getting close to driving myself insane, I just gave up. The guy had promise, but for whatever reasons he flopped. I think he has a chance to be Alex Smith 2.0, just not in NY. 

SackDance99
SackDance99

@a57se @SackDance99Well, coming from a guy who thinks an OC and QB can have "rapport" even when the OC has never coached the QB for a full game, whether in the pre- or regular season, your opinion is, no offense, meaningless.  And, you're not debating because you know I'm right and need to reduce your reply comment to a childish epithet, dude.

SackDance99
SackDance99

@a57se @SackDance99No, I said they had "no rapport" and gave the facts for that conclusion: "In fact, fans seem to forget how much Sanchez struggled in camp (after working with Jeff Garcia, who had been MM's go to QB) and in pre-season."  Then, I further clarified that they had little time together in camp and pre-season and, thus, had "no working chemistry as OC and QB."

"Building rapport" means that there isn't real rapport, yet.  So, again, my conclusion that MM and Sanchez have no rapport as QB and OC is logical and based upon the precise definition of "rapport."

I know you have a tendency to just fight, but here you should just stand down.  By the definition of rapport, it's just logical that MM and Sanchez don't have it.

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se To the point it will weigh into the discussion about whether Mark should remain on the team? I highly doubt it. 

SackDance99
SackDance99

@a57se @SackDance99This is why you're infuriating to so many here.  J.Smooth said "Just comparing him to Vick, he's six years younger, has a better health track record, and has a very comparable rapport with Mornhinweg, since you have to figure that he spent a lot of time with Marty on the sidelines."


Now "rapport" means:


a close and harmonious relationship in which the people or groups concerned understand each other's feelings or ideas and communicate well.

Now, how is it possible for Mark and MM to have any rapport as QB and OC when Mark has never started a regular season NFL game under MM?  Moreover, comparing Vick, who started 36 NFL games with MM as his OC, to Mark in terms of "rapport" was simply incorrect.

You say that you're an engineer and precise language is important.  If that is indeed the case, then equating Vick's "rapport" with MM to Mark's was an incorrect use of the word.  In fact, my conclusion, given MM and Sanchez have never participated in a regular season NFL game together, that they have no "rapport" would be the logical one.  We are talking football, right?

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se I think it's fair to say that a QB who had a season ending injury during preseason didn't build a rapport with his coordinator. He didn't practice and I can't imagine Marty being a big "hey, let's just chat because I want to be palsies!" type of guy. 

SackDance99
SackDance99

@a57se @SackDance99@J. SmoothHe only worked, meaning running the offense in drills, practice and in pre-season games for, total, maybe a month.  He and MM have no working chemistry as OC and QB.  Are you saying that they do?  You are assuming a "rift" and all I'm saying is that they don't have a working rapport.

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se @Brendan  Wouldn't you agree that QB is one of the positions where combine numbers are less relevant because intangibles are so much more important?

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se Yeah, and he's good enough to post those numbers so you know how close of a correlation it is. 


I honestly wouldn't be shocked if he falls in somewhere between the elite talent you mentioned earlier and the sub-elite talent listed on Marcus' site. 

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se http://mockdraftable.com/players/2014/


He's been updating it, it's not easy to update an entire combine's worth of guys right away, but he's getting there. I'm very thankful for the work Marcus puts into logging this information, if there's another site that does it like he does, I haven't found it. 



Brendan
Brendan

@a57se This is the first I'm hearing that. 


Marcus' database is a tool, not a deciding factor. I just think it's a bit more scientific than looking at combine numbers and agreeing they're "kind of similar" or whatever. 

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se Yeah, he's a smallish guy with speed & agility. But those three guys have three levels of success (Holmes was lightning in a bottle, but has flamed out due to injury; Brown is one of the best receivers in football, and Smith used to be). 


Marcus has his database updated for Beckham and his comparables aren't nearly as good as the WR's we're discussing. 


I've softened my stance on Beckham, but I would still prefer other guys at 18. 

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se  I think we've proven that Holmes' diva-ness (?) doesn't preclude him from working with other receivers or working hard. He's just kind of a d*ck. 

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se I don't see why that matters, there have been many diva WR's that were really good. 

bklyndude
bklyndude

@a57se @bklyndude

There's a reason why guys like this wind up in the slot. They have trouble with stronger CB's on the outside.  It's my only concern with him.  Just haven't seen him enough against top backs to be completely sold yet.

NJJDB
NJJDB

@a57se That catch at 1:50 is obscene. I HOPE we get him.

bklyndude
bklyndude

@a57se @bklyndude  change of direction skills are usually what slot receivers use to get open like Welker and Cruz.  They can go left or right on a dime.

On the outside, back shoulder and high pointing as well as speed are important.  As a no. one WR on a team facing the best CB's requires beating press coverage frequently.

Can't watch video at work, I will watch later.

bklyndude
bklyndude

@a57se @bklyndude

I like Beckham and think he would be a nice addition to any team.  I don't think his upside is as high as you though. You are comparing him to some really good WR's. 

I guess my real concern is his strength and when he gets pressed at the LOS.  To me that is one of the most undervalued aspects of being a WR.  Getting separation is a real skill.

bklyndude
bklyndude

@a57se @bklyndude

Wow, high praise.  I don't think he is as strong as Steve Smith.  If he turns out to be Antonio Brown,  that's pretty good.

NJJDB
NJJDB

@a57se @J. Smooth OBJr is an awesome pick-up for us, particularly given that he has a rapport with our special teams coach!

Bytor
Bytor

Harvey out, who's driving in runs on this team? David Wright aaand? I did say ” almost tempted” :-)

Brendan
Brendan

@phily kay As a Mets fan, I'm intrigued by Grandy. Originally, I hated the signing, but then he started talking, saying the right things, and I started digging in a bit more. Out of his home runs, few are cheapies, which is what I assumed to be the case when a guy with middling power went to the Yanks and started mashing. He seems to genuinely want to play hard for the team, so if he can bring some professionalism to a team that's lacked it for ages, I'm cool with that. 


But he's probably striking out 200 times this year, I'm no dummy. 

phily kay
phily kay

@a57se @Brendan  bye bye robbie, bye bye andy, bye bye mo (and to an extent robertson in the 8th) and to some extent bye bye grandy and bye bye bye bye alex lol

phily kay
phily kay

@Brendan @J. Smooth  what are you reading? im a huge yankee fan but most of what im reading (outside the yankee media that is) is that with all their additions theyre still about only as good as last season when you factor in the losses.......that still seems to be about 5-10 games ahead of the mets tho

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se Why in the world would you take Gardner's glove out of the field? Besides Ellsbury I don't think there's a better defensive player on that team. 


Gardner would start LF with Ells in CF and Beltran in RF, splitting time with Soriano as he needs to. 

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se I know his logic behind it, but I'd rather bat him 6th and get him as many at-bats as possible over whoever is mucking it up at 3B, 2B and DH. Gardner has quality at-bats, I'd be trying to get him as many as possible. 

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se  I don't get putting Gardner 9th, but I'll take your word for it. 

bklyndude
bklyndude

@a57se @bklyndude

Take it easy.  The lineup is improved, but I think losing Mariano really hurts.  If  CC rebounds,  I think the team can get to 95,  otherwise it may be tough to get to 90 in that division.

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se That wasn't accusatory, I just think Cano leaving is more of a negative than any of those adds are a positive. 


I see holes at 2nd and 3rd, SS is going to be a hodge-podge with Jeter probably having to play DH a fair amount of time. The outfield is solid with Beltran and Ellsbury. 


But a 3-4-5 of Beltran-Tex-McCann isn't world-beating. It's good, not great, IMO. 


But throwing Ellsbury/Gardner at the top does make it a nice little 1-5 in the order that they won't use to keep Jete batting in the top of the 1st every game. 

bklyndude
bklyndude

@a57se @Brendan  ......I don't see how they can't win 95....

If CC Sabathia doesn't return to form they won't.

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se The Yankees don't have one of the best lineups in the league, settle down. 


You didn't list Cano being replaced by Brendan Ryan. 

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se I think Baltimore leap frogs them this year (I know they technically finished behind Balt last year, but they had the same record). 


I think Baltimore is a rising team, Yankees are kind of moving laterally. 

J. Smooth
J. Smooth

@Brendan @J. Smooth  They'll be scrappy but I can just imagine if Wheeler comes out and takes a Harvey-like next step, how high will expectations be next year?

Brendan
Brendan

@J. Smooth I wouldn't expect to win that bet (which is why I don't want to do a dinner bet), I just think the Yanks are being overrated like they usually are and the Mets will end up being pretty scrappy over in the NL. I'd give my side of the bet a 10% chance of winning. 

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se I was just going to suggest the standard $25 charitable donation bet. Depending on how much you eat, that could be a costly bet.