Daily Links: Mocks





108 comments
frustjetfn
frustjetfn

When arguments are weak reporters make self-serving "points" to convince those who don't closely examine what's being said. When Cimini said "When you're thinking about the Jets' '13 draft, think about this number: 3,967. The combined total number of O, D and ST snaps played by the Jets five rookies."


To rate a draft class by the number of snaps, including ST, is ridiculous when closely examined. Although it makes sense from 30,000 foot fly-by, it doesn't take into account huge variables like how weak a teams existing roster was (forcing them to play rookies) or how desperate a new GM is to play raw talent (despite not earning playing time) to prove he didn't make mistakes in his first draft. The point that it is self-serving for a GM to do that during his "grace period" to establish a new direction for the franchise is particularly lost on Cimini.


Now I don't have a problem with re-evaluating the 2013 Jets draft at any time, but I do think it should be based on real specific facts like Sheldon Richardson's performance rather than vague group stats like combined number of snaps.

Pat d
Pat d

Giving the 2013 draft a B+ after one year is a bit generous. After three years I do expect an A grade though.

Mike Milea
Mike Milea

Im talking CRAZY! I know this! But WHAT IF!!! What if the Jets decided to have THE BEST OVERALL D LINE and natural pass rush in the entire NFL and took Kony Ealy in the first round. It would be the second DT/DE we take from Mizzou in two straight years by the Jets and it would solidify our D-Line for the next 5 to 10 years. Dont get me wrong, I know how good we are already and how important the skill position is on Offense for this team BUT THATS WHY IM TALKING CRAZY! Imagine what our D line would look like if we added Ealy.


Muhammad Wilkerson

Quniton Coples

Sheldon Richardson

Kony Ealy


Leger Douzable 

Damon Harrison

Kerick Ellis


Lol, it would honestly be a joke how good our defense would be. We would never have to call a blitz, nor have a need for a stud pass rushing MLB/OLB. We would honestly be set for a decade. IM TAKING CRAZY PILLS, I know this! But WHAT IF???

MarshRandy
MarshRandy

I watched the Blake Bortles Fiesta Bowl highlights yesterday (I saw the first half of the game live but turned it off because he was so terrible), I'll admit that he did play better in the second half and he shows some promise but taking him in the high first round is literally laughable. Can't imagine the Vikings make the same mistake less than 5 years after Ponder. I need to check out Carr highlights but besides Manziel and Bridgewater it's such an underwhelming QB draft - I'm glad we're sticking with Geno another season

harvlis
harvlis

I think it will take a few more years, before we can grade the 2013 draft.   Richardson seems to be a no-brainer but, the other players have done nothing, yet.  They  threw Winters to the wolves, instead of grooming him.  He was on the ground, as much as he was standing.  Milliner came in late, after a shoulder injury, got eaten up and showed glimpses, in the last few games.  Geno did not impress me at all.  They seem stuck on Geno.  I think Simms could have been better and should have been given a chance.  If they want to have a serious offense in 2014, I think they still need to find a QB.  I don't want to see a game manager who has to limit turnovers -- I want a real QB.  Look who QB'd the two championship games -- the two best older QB's and the two best young QB's.  This is a QB driven league.  We need better.

Pat d
Pat d

Mel Kiper upping the Jets 2013 draft grade from a B to a B+ seems a little generous. The fact that the rookies played so many downs is more of an indication of a team that isn't very good.

harold
harold

I am going to keep beating the Hakeem Nicks drum.  I think for 1 or two years because he wants the big pay-day a la Santonio Holmes we could get us one of the best playmaking WR's when he is motivated go back to 2010, 2011.  Who was much better?

This is the stock market.  Nicks is a player where you buy low and sell high

Zartan
Zartan

I thought it was just me that felt that way, hope the Jets can put together a good offense this season. Would like Geedson to beat the charges and come back healthy.

Lloyd Jay Reife
Lloyd Jay Reife

@jaygo   A mock draft now is just a space killer and time filler.  

Free agency has not arrived.

Combines haven't occurred.

Super Bowl has not even been played yet, officially ending the season.

Even arrests affecting the next season needs bail to be set.

juunit
juunit

@jaygo 

That article about Kiper vs. McShay called Crabtree a bust though. 

Can I really take an article about correctly predicting the draft seriously when the guy who wrote it can't even accurately judge guys who are successful in the NFL? 

Pat d
Pat d

We are going to have to let one of the three we have now go. They won't all be here for 10 years

juunit
juunit

@MarshRandy 

I think Bortles is similar to Tannehill when he entered. He has the physical tools, but isn't really a talented QB (at the moment anyway.) Tannehill went 8th, everyone figured they reached for him. Bortles will probably play out in a similar way. Heck, the Vikings pick 8th and they need a QB. Might even turn out exactly the same as Tannehill did. 

harold
harold

Geno is terrible and every QB without a top 15 rusher and top 85 passer has had better seasons!

NOT!!

harold
harold

de ja vu all over again.  that is terrible.

Pat d
Pat d

Crabtree is sorry

Zartan
Zartan

If theres an elite one( Amaro , Ebron or Jenkins). Don't know if any of them are any good . I've seen Amaro, like what I saw but was not impressed.

Pat d
Pat d

If the top guy on your board is a WR you take a WR as long as it isn't a reach according to your board. If the top guy on your board is a TE you take a TE. That is how successful teams draft.

Brendan
Brendan

@jake100 Defense still wins championships, offense wins the regular season. 

MarshRandy
MarshRandy

@juunit @MarshRandy honestly the way he looks/moves around the pocket is very Andrew Luck-like. But when he throws it's pretty much a mess. If I knew he'd become Tannehill I might take him top-5 but I bet he ends up like Jake Locker

harvlis
harvlis

@a57se@harvlis I believe in stacking the O-line with talent, protecting a throwing QB in the pocket, and letting his RB's and WR's do the work.  Not a big fan of running QB's, as they can get hurt.  It is nice, if your QB can get you that big first down, by being able to move out of the pocket but, I would rather have a great thrower move my team down the field.

harold
harold

If Nicks took a 1 year 3 million dollar contract with incentives like 75 catches and 1000 yards gets you a bonus.  Put a bonus in for games played so he is motivated to play all 16 games.  A motivated Nicks is better than every WR on the market.  He just turned 26 last week!

harold
harold

He is not injured.  He played 15 games this year.  He is better when motivated than any WR out there.  That is a fact. 

Plus he just turned 26 last week.  For a one or two year rental so he can get a big contract when could be getting our offensive Talib (sometimes injured, malcontent)  who is  an outstanding football player on Sundays

Pat d
Pat d

That's what Sherman claims

Zartan
Zartan

:D indeed. right price , and all that stuff.

Zartan
Zartan

Last I checked, you need to outscore the opponent but yes, and good defense will help when winning big (go seahawks).

bradysucks
bradysucks

If Defense wins championships then why do all the Super Bowl teams have QB's named Brees, Rodgers, Aikman, Manning, Brady, Bradshaw, Namath, etc etc

Defense is important but the Jets have ignored offense long enough...

It would be insane not to make upgrading the offense the major focus of this offseason....

harold
harold

@marcus81

I think everyone agrees get one quality guy and draft the rest.  But if we can get  a 2nd guy cheaply bring him in.

Pat d
Pat d

Why didn't we win championships in 2010 and 2011 then

Brendan
Brendan

@harold Draft in the middle rounds, Nicks is your #1, Jones is your veteran glue guy, Kerley is a slot pain-in-the-ass, Hill is a wildcard. 

harold
harold

Draft a couple WR's and groom them to take over in a couple years and you are set for years to come at the WR position.  Then all the premature evaluators can makea proper decision. 

harold
harold

It is not even close.  I would take Nicks.  A motivated Nicks is way better.  You go for the higher upside player.  Now I wouldn't mind signing both.

MarshRandy
MarshRandy

@Mike Milea @MarshRandy @bob @Brendan @jake100 I've had it up to here with d-linemen bro 

Mike Milea
Mike Milea

@MarshRandy@bob@Brendan@jake100 

Guys guys guys, we're talking about adding Kony Ealy and having the best D line the NFL has ever seen. Please dont take away from my stellar comment above.

bob
bob

@Brendan@jake100

Yep James Jones would be really good for the right price . interesting to see how free agency turns out . Do the Jets spend or hold back and build threw the draft for 2015.




bklyndude
bklyndude

@Brendan @jake100 This Super Bowl will be a perfect example of defense vs. offense.   Great QB against great defense.  

Hope the weather is decent and it's a great game.

MarshRandy
MarshRandy

@juunit @MarshRandy agreed. He's an intriguing prospect for sure and I'd be thrilled to get a guy like him in the third round, but the 1st is too big of a risk

juunit
juunit

@MarshRandy@juunit 

I wouldn't draft him. People get too wrapped up in physical tools, especially when it's about a QB. The guy has to have the brain for it too.


Similar to Smith, Bortles throws lots of screens to pad his completion %. But he doesn't even have the impressive numbers Smith did. Run heavy offense, still threw a bunch of picks. And he's definitely not Kaepernick with his legs, so he will have to throw to survive. His arm is strong, sometimes, and he's way too inconsistent with his accuracy for me.


I might draft him with a 3rd rounder. But I say that in a vacuum, because I have no interest in a QB in the draft this year, unless Bridgewater was somehow possible.

harold
harold

I am stating facts.  When the running game was efective other than the Pats game.  Where are the bad games?  I just didn't see them. 

MarshRandy
MarshRandy

@a57se @harold yea I'm not denying that he was bad it's just that this isn't a great QB draft and I'd like to Geno get another full season with a better supporting cast before making the final decision 

harold
harold

It was sarcasm that Geno is terrible and despite not having a top 15 rusher or top 85 Wr he still manged to be respectable for large portions of the season.

I agree with you @Marsh Randy about giving Geno another season. 

harold
harold

He wants it now but he won't get what he wants.  That is the reason people take the one year deals so they can get the money they feel is deserved

harold
harold

Because he wanted the big pay day.  I think he will accept less this year to prove he deserves the rest.

bklyndude
bklyndude

@harold  He was looking for more money than Victor Cruz before the season.   He has been a number one receiver on a Super Bowl winning team.  He is a legitimate outside WR.  I don't think he was 100% last year.

I think he will have to prove on a one year deal he is the player that can still command a contract greater than the Cruz deal.

If he doesn't believe in himself or his health,  maybe he accepts a multi year deal now for less than Cruz.

harold
harold

Taking a long term deal to get 20 or so million.  When you can play one more year and get 50-60 million.  I realize it is not a guarantee.  But when the difference is so much most guys will chose to go that route.

marcus81
marcus81

@harold at 26 he'll want to make his money, someone will give him a multi year deal, doubt he'll settle for 1 year deal

bklyndude
bklyndude

@marcus81 @harold  If he can't get a long term deal to his liking,  he probably would consider a one year deal and re-establish his value.   Which of course would make him highly motivated.  

This dude if healthy and motivated would be a hugh upgrade from what we currently have.  A down year with 900 yards.

harold
harold

Why he would consider a 1 year deal.

He can sign this year for 4 years 20 million

Or bet on himself for this year at 1 year w/ up 5 million with incentives.

Then capitalize like Holmes for a 5 year 45 to 55 million dollar deal.

marcus81
marcus81

@harold Nicks is gonna be looking for a pay day, not a 1 year incentives deal, he's put in his time being under paid, he's gotta start working his a$$ off to be a top guy again though

harold
harold

Somehow Geno still managed to have 7 really solid games as a rookie with a poor WR corps.  But is is just terrible.

Nicks would have an opportunity to be our #1 WR if healthy he would easily get 70 to 80 balls and 1000 yards.

harold
harold

Please identify my blindspot for me.  I see a huge one for you that I can expound on as well. 

harold
harold

See second Dolphins game 2011, See Titans game and second Pats game 2012 to see how bad QB was.   

Pat d
Pat d

If Holmes was so successful then how bad was the QB.

harold
harold

Holmes was succesful with Sanchez who was a bad QB.

I don't see a material difference to be honest

harold
harold

I think with easy to earn incentive that still require production and accountability you can get what you need from the player and the player feels he is getting an opportunity to get the pay day he deserves in a year or two.

harold
harold

I love sports fans but they are fickle.  We all saw the end of Abraham he wasn't tough, he was a problem all he did was continue on his path to become one of the best pass rushers of his generation.

Fans are fans.  If you look objectively it is a good investement.

I still did get response of this type of investment failing in the short-term?

No drugs or suspensions, in his prime 26 last week.  And Squandered his opportunity to get paid after having to eat humble pie (traded. let walk via F/A).

harold
harold

I am a diehard football fan.  I watch parts of his games almost every week and he still has the same skill level as 2011.  If it was a question skill I would agree.

But on a short term deal you take cheap talent when it is available.

harold
harold

@jake100

Are you even reading the posts?

You guys make my point we rent Nicks and let someone else buy. 

Get it?

I you at least see you argument is pretty weak about not signing Nicks. 

A long-term deal I agree with you.

But on a short term deal he is a sound investment

harold
harold

I said do not sign them long-term.

Are you even reading the posts?

You guys make my point we rent Nicks and let someone else buy. 

Get it?

harold
harold

Haynesworth was already paid.  He played for his contract.

You prove my point.  Next!

harold
harold

What are you missing?  Give me an example where young talented player (not on drugs, previous suspensions).

Got a change of scenery after being productive and did not produce to get his pay-day?

You guys are not seeing this straight.

I believe Nicks will play at a Pro Bowl level for someone next year the question is will it be for us?

harold
harold

No one wanted Holmes until he almost helped us get to the super bowl.

I am gald we pulled the trigger in 2010 on that deal.   The extension is where you get into trouble with these guys.  Not on the cheap.  Talent wants to get paid.

harold
harold

Wouldn't your serious decline show so horrible stats this year.  900 yards when you have another really good player next to you is not bad.  Nicks is a potential star.  Every team is not a fit for everyone.

Nicks seems as though he got disgruntled when the team paid Cruz and Coughlin kept calling him out.  It happens when you are 25.

harold
harold

Serious decline?

He had over 60 catches and almost 900 yards.  A lot of players were labeled by the Giants organization.

Osi was bad guy because he wanted to get paid?  You think Rex is going to fine Nicks for every late meeting and let it get out to the press.  Or do you think he will sit him down like a man and explain what he expects.

Rex and Coughlin are totally different animals

harold
harold

Why does Holmes being traded matter?

We still acquired the player if anything it makes it a more expensive pick-up. You trade a pick as well.

Eli ran a big boy offense to the tune of 25 INTS 

harold
harold

You say a worst QB than Eli last year.  I think Geno played better than Manning to be honest.  Based on being consistently bad Eli took the cake last year.

But Holmes went to a worst QB did he not produce?

Motivated playmakers make plays period.

Buy low sell high!

harold
harold

I don't care about fans.  I care about skills.  Nicks is the most talented WR on the market.

If he is motivated, which he has to be to get the pay day he thought was coming his way.  you sign him.  We got Holmes and Cro when no one else wanted them.

They were great pick-up.  If buy low and sell high on talented players the risk is small so you take it.  You will win more often than you lose.