Daily Links: Must try harder




81 comments
Tequila Joe
Tequila Joe

Maybe they should check Coples' uric acid levels. A guy on my flag football team who is a great athlete was getting tired way to quick. Nobody could really understand why, he looks like he's in great shape. He found out later he had very high uric acid levels and it was responsible for decreasing the amount of nitric oxide in his body. Low NO resulted in loss of energy. With this said he's still a beast and probably the best player on my flag football team...Still, sometimes when I see Coples he has this expression on his face that I've seen from my teammate on more than one occasion. Just a thought...maybe it a physical thing not a mental or effort thing...

buddyryan
buddyryan

Cool that Chad will turn in the pick....He'll get a much deserved raucous applause

Brendan
Brendan

What is it with ex-players named Joe and trashing the team/players? 


Mo doesn't try hard? Ooookay then. 

johnnyl65
johnnyl65

Klecko is clearly poking the bears with a big stick,anyone saying it doesn't produce an effect,go  give it a try.

williamg1
williamg1

Want to question Coples motor, then fine. I'd argue that the guy was hurt, and after he healed he was pretty beastly. 


But I'm surprised by him questioning Wilkerson's motor. Maybe he's right, maybe he's wrong. It would be nice if someone who has watched all of Wilk's film could weigh-in on this. 


Bent? 

williamg1
williamg1

Questioning Wilkerson's motor? 

bklyndude
bklyndude

We know the Jets are most likely going to draft either WR or CB with their first pick,  I'm not feel'in Ebron if he falls.   Both positions are needs and will be addressed in the draft.   We haven't used a first round pick for a playmaker in years and I would love for that to change,  as long as the brass feels that's where the value is.   Adding Decker and CJ may have lessened that from a glaring need to just a need as far as the first round goes.

I think the CB position with Cromartie leaving is more glaring because of the way Rex needs his corners to press and take away those quick short passes.  So I'm not going to be disappointed if either position is addressed in the first round.   We have multiple needs and lots of draft picks.

UncleJoesJetFarm
UncleJoesJetFarm

In my view, second to much needed improvement at the QB position and if Geno's performance at the end of last season carries over and he continues to grow, that will be huge, is Ivory staying healthy and the oline line playing consistent. After that, Making sure we are not sitting ducks for the opposing pass game in the secondary. 

kniff
kniff

As BIG Chad Pennington fans, both my son and I are thrilled to learn he will be announcing the second round pick...he absolutely deserves recognition by Jet Nation...


...which reminds me of the importance of systematically bolstering the O line... unfortunately, I have yet to see it this year...


Lets us draft well...



idothis2
idothis2

i love Klecko, but i would expect Klecko to speak to Coples directly if his intent was to motivate him.

marc55
marc55

What about taking a WR in round 1, and then grabbing a coverage safety in round 2, such as Jimmie Ward?  I know everyone likes to constantly talk about how corner is the important position in this scheme, but that does not mean safety is not important.  Look at how important Ed Reed has been to this scheme, and look to NO where Rex's brother just nabbed up Byrd in FA.  I don't think there is an elite coverage safety on this roster, and I do not want to rely on Reed for another year, so maybe grabbing Ward in the 2nd and then taking a corner in the 3rd-4th would make some sense.  Rex will adapt.

marc55
marc55

Because Rex has continually proven to be able to get Defenses to perform at a high level, and we know we can count on him if he is given reasonably good players, do people think this reasoning makes drafting a corner more logical, because there is a better chance Rex can maximize the tools he is given?  The flip side of this is obviously that he can make do with less, and more resources should be devoted to the potential weakness.  I don't know which side of the coin I fall on, but it may be a reason the team has shown more willingness to draft defensive players he can develop, while paying for proven offensive commodities.


williamg1
williamg1

@Brendan  Gastineau says he question's Pace's commitment to football.

gusto
gusto

He didn't say Mo doesn't try hard. He's basically saying Mo gives 100% effort 80% of the time. He wants Mo to give 100% effort all the time. He's not being critical of them in a "these guys suck" way. He's being critical of them in a "these guys are ridiculously talented and if they had Sheldon's motor, they would be HOFers" way. I can't say I disagree.

bobbyj
bobbyj

Still have no idea if QC pans out playing where he currently is, & when you combine that w/ up coming contract issues, it really makes you wonder. I put on this blog that QC scored dead last on the 3 cone drill & 20 yard shuttle amongst DE's at the combine. He's just a really big dude, it may not be effort, or even conditioning, just physics, it takes a lot to move a body of his size. This will be a make or break year for QC. As far as Klecko is concerned, I'm pretty sure that he knows a thing or two about playing on the defensive line, & to simply dismiss what he says is dumb. How many defensive line positions did Klecko make the pro bowl as? Maybe he is just pumping the guys up, however I will say this, some weeks ago Bart Scott laid out everything there was to know about playing line backer & the NY Jets. First off QC wasn't even mentioned by Bart. Secondly Bart basically told us how invaluable Calvin Pace was & that Calvin did all the dirty work, & still managed to pull down 10 sacks. So here's the question, supposedly we were in market for a few of the high end pass rushers, why? If Calvin pulled down 10 while doing all the dirty work & QC is so great, where is the need?

Hazard2012
Hazard2012

@williamg1  


Any criticism re QC's motor likely dates from his college days, as well as times in his rookie season, where he was largely MIA.   Since being switched to OLB, however, I see him making genuine strides, especially once he got healthy.  I continue to say he's gets double-digit sacks this season.  


I take Klecko's comments a little differently.   I think he sees the same potential of both Mo and QC, and the entire DL, in fact, and is prodding them to take it to the next level.   Joe knows something about a dominant line, and I think he's trying to motivate these guys to kick it up a notch this season.  

will898
will898

That was the knock on Coples at North Carolina.

Steven Windeler
Steven Windeler

@williamg1 He didn't exactly say he was lazy. He said that compared to Richardson, or himself. Those two are like wolverines. Most guys cannot keep up that level of intensity throughout an entire season. No one expects Wilk to play like that, but he said, if he did he would take his game to another level.

idothis2
idothis2

@bklyndude i wouldnt be upset if the Jets selected ealy or ford with their 1st

bklyndude
bklyndude

@idothis2  

Klecko gets paid to analyze the Jets. 

If he's asked a question about the Jets,  he answers questions with honesty.   He has never come across as an a$$hole with an agenda.  I happen to agree a little bit that Coples has the potential to be great.   If fans are going to be sensitive everytime somebody critiques a player,  you are gonna drive yourself nuts.

UncleJoesJetFarm
UncleJoesJetFarm

@marc55  No doubt, Rex can get the most out of a defense, but within reason. I see another very stout run defense, but some very big holes against the pass. The Rex defense is best with two top shelf CBs who play man coverage. The Lbs and safety's are also far from solid in coverage. Last season the defense gave up the most deep passes in Rex's entire tenure.  If milliner can make a big jump and stay healthy, that is half the battle but the other CB or lack of concerns me as does the coverage ability of the entire defense beyond the dline. I truly think teams will go pass happy on us this season with quick drops and spread it all over and then some deep passes on us to mix it up. Hopefully in the draft we can address this issue, maybe with the first pick and then catch some mid round Gems, but offense should be the priority. Luckily we have a lot of picks.

bradysucks
bradysucks

@marc55  


The Jets can draft offensive players and do it well.......Idzik is NOT Tannenbaum and Morninweg is NOT Sparano/Schotty......


The past is not indicative of the future

Bent
Bent moderator

@gusto  I've noticed plays where Wilkerson backs off or appears to make a half-hearted effort and it often causes chaos upfront because there are two guys geared up to double team him.  I hope Klecko would be smart enough to recognize that this was by design, but since he came from such an attacking defense with no smoke and mirrors aspect, maybe he doesn't understand why a player wouldn't relentlessly go after the QB every time in Rex's defense.

Bent
Bent moderator

@bobbyj  


Scott doesn’t think the Jets need to draft a young outside linebacker to start grooming saying, “Well they don’t have to because they’re pretty much set at that spot. You got Coples, you got him (Pace) and you got Barnes coming back.”


- From the article where Scott supposedly didn't mention Coples.

bklyndude
bklyndude

@idothis2  

I think you are going to be upset.  

I don't see that happening at 18,  especially considering out needs at other positions and the value of the draft having multiple players at those positions.

idothis2
idothis2

@bklyndude @idothis2 everyone other fanbase can be sensitive, but not Jets fans. i never get that. you dont see former players of other teams criticizing the team or current player in the media, even the ones that are paid to analyze. nothing wrong with being sensitive, especially since the ny and national media love to take shots at the Jets. when i read an opinion below that Klecko's intent was to motivate Coples, i disagree with that. if his intent was to motivate him, i would expect Klecko to speak to Coples directly. i love klecko, but i wont assume his intent

marc55
marc55

@bradysucks @marc55I agree that the past is not indicative of the future, I was pointing to the past as a possible example of one side of the argument I was discussing.  You did not answer any of the question.  Negative points for poor comprehension.

Hazard2012
Hazard2012

@Bent @gusto  


Nice observation.   Rex's schemes are becoming more subtle and complex, more focused on orchestrated DL unit nuance as a whole and less reliant on individual dominance.  


The fact he has three beasts who can physically dominate, and who each need to be doubled, as well as a pair of NT's who can clog the line and take on two blockers creates all kinds of mismatches in the trenches.   


Which is why I'd increase the chaos and opportunity for mismatches by adding a stud OLB on the other side.   

Bent
Bent moderator

@Hanknaples  First off, I don't think I was being UNFAIR to Pace.  That was just the reality of their rotations - Barnes was in on the nickel packages at one DE with Coples on the other side.  That was in preseason until Coples got injured and during the regular season in between Coples' return and Barnes himself getting hurt.  So, my assumption that Barnes would probably have got more of Pace's pass rush reps is almost certainly correct.


However, you seem to be suggesting that he doesn't deserve to get reps over Pace which is a different matter so let's address that too.


Barnes had 11 sacks in 2011, something Pace has NEVER done, so you can't say he's outproduced him through his entire career.


Also, you saw the numbers above which measure how productive Barnes is as a pass rusher.  Among the league leaders.  Pace produced more, but only because he played a lot more.  Pace's positional ranks in the same category: 27th, 23rd, 28th, 43rd, 33rd, 14th.  He was less productive than Barnes in every single season.


Of course, we should take Bart Scott's comments into account that Pace has other responsibilities when rushing that will affect his production and also account for the fact that Barnes has mostly been in a part time role so is usually fresh.  Still, Barnes has been a lot better than you suggest.  (Or has he?  Before the Jets signed Barnes you said they'd never be able to afford him and predicted he'd cost $6-8m.  Now you're criticizing him?)


We shouldn't really be comparing them anyway, because Barnes has said he doesn't want to start because he likes the situational pass rusher role in Rex's defense.  Therefore they complement one another well.

Bent
Bent moderator

@Hazard2012 @Bent @bobbyj  Absolutely.  His positional ranks for pass rush productivity:


2013 - 23rd

2012 - 10th

2011 - 3rd

2010 - 2nd

2009 - 15th

2008 - 16th

2007 - 2nd (Note: Doesn't include the last three games yet)


Snap count critieria over 100, although he fell just below that twice.


When given significant reps in 2011, he had 11 sacks and in terms of durability, he's played over 10 games in every other season.

Hazard2012
Hazard2012

@Bent @Hazard2012 @bobbyj  


True, but can Barnes stay healthy?   Is he healthy?  I'll admit to thinking of Barnes as a one-trick pony who's never really gotten all that good at the trick.    Has his production's ever equaled the hype or expectations?  

Bent
Bent moderator

@Hazard2012 @bobbyj  If Barnes stayed healthy, I'd assume Pace wouldn't even have been on the field for most of those 10 sacks.

Hazard2012
Hazard2012

@bobbyj


I think Rex is looking for versatility, interchangeable pieces he can line up in myriad schemes and formations at will, and QC, like Mo and BoggHogg, seems to fit that well. 


Don't forget that QC's change of positions and injury has slowed his development, but I think the QC we saw in second half of last season was very disruptive; applying pressure, getting sacks, deflecting passes, and increasingly difficult to dislodge or beat.  


Also, lots of Pace's sacks were the result of play being flushed to him by the rest of the line, not really generated by him.   Doubt we get 10 sacks from Pace again.  He's reaching the end of his career, and Barnes has never really been the top-notch player Rex envisioned or needs. 


So forget FAcy.  Go get that stud OLB in this draft and get Rex the edge rusher he's never had here.  

Bent
Bent moderator

@bobbyj  I would hope Mo will just get a fair market deal next year, Coples the year after that and Richardson in 2017.   Of course, things rarely go to plan but that should ensure the Jets have a good-to-great defense until the end of the decade and maybe beyond.  I don't think there will be much overlap between their roles, as we could see all three out there for 80% or more of the snaps in a lot of games.

Bent
Bent moderator

@bobbyj  Who did we look at?  Nobody came in for a visit.  Maybe it's just to fool people into thinking that's a direction they might take in the draft.  Not sure there was genuine interest in any pass rushers, they probably just called round to see if they could bolster their depth with any bargains.


Also, I think you're mischaracterizing what Bart said about Pace slightly.  He actually said Pace doesn't get many chances to pin back his ears and rush the passer properly because he has other responsibilities at the snap, like jamming TEs and keeping initial contain in the event of a hand-off.  He said this to quieten critics who have not been impressed by his low sack numbers in the past and those who suggest that all his sacks in 2013 were cheap coverage sacks and that Coples (who CAN pin back his ears) generated more pressure.

bobbyj
bobbyj

Also you have to see problems coming w/the up coming contract issues. Do you think that QC could play in Mo's spot, fill his role & if so, do u think Idzik will use this as leverage against Mo? Lots of money going to that DLine

bobbyj
bobbyj

Ok, I didn't see the QC thing, that's on me, but the question still stands. If Calvin pulled down 10 while doing all the dirty work, & QC is doing so well, why were we looking at pass rushers in FA?

jaym
jaym

@Bent

You must believe in the tooth fairy and Santa Clause

idothis2
idothis2

@bklyndude @idothis2i wouldnt be upset either way. i dont think the Jets have cavernous needs at cb and wr like most do. if the bpa at 18 or whenever the Jets pick 1st is not ebron, a wr, or cb. i would be cool. i just wouldn't be surprised if they picked a potential 10+ sack olb

Disgruntled Jets Fan
Disgruntled Jets Fan

@a57se @idothis2 he seems to be fairly reasonable on air. 

which is nnice because he provides a contrast to ray lucas as far as Rutgers alumni go.

a57se
a57se

@idothis2 @a57se 

I live in Houston and the fans here are just as bad as Jets fans.....I lived in Dallas for five years and it is even worse...and Yes, former Cowboys are always blasting the current group.

idothis2
idothis2

@a57se @idothis2i'm stunned, but i heard him being the voice of reason about the Jets a few months back before i stopped watching nfl net. he was a man on an island re the Jets
,

a57se
a57se

@idothis2

Last Night on NFL Network Shaun O'Hara was critical of the Giants drafts over the last 5 seasons.Gave them a C-.....

idothis2
idothis2

@bklyndude @idothis2no other paid former player/ analyst criticizes their former team even when their team is blatantly in the wrong. that's why i stopped watching nfl net. those former Pats are sickening. 


idothis2
idothis2

@bradysucks @idothis2i would expect you know the difference between coach and former player/analysts.  perhaps you can give an example of a former Patriot or Giant or any other paid former player/ analyst that criticizes their former team

bklyndude
bklyndude

@idothis2  

Every team and network hires former players to analyze football games and players.   The fact that they get paid requires them to sometimes say things that some fans get mad at.   It's up to you to decide if their analysis is fair or off base.

What did Klecko say that's out of bounds.    Bent pointed out that it was taken out of context of what was actually said.

bradysucks
bradysucks

@idothis2  


So you must think Rex Ryan is just awful.....Rex publicly criticized Coples last year in pre-season...


He did the same thing with Kerley 2 years ago....ALL IN THE PUBLIC FORUM......


There was not a private converstaion....


Klecko is doing EXACTLY what Rex Ryan did.....



marc55
marc55

@High$ocietyJet I completely agree with your best player available point.  I'm really just making the argument that the team has a better chance of getting the most value out of defensive players they draft, which makes taking them safer.

High$ocietyJet
High$ocietyJet

I think you're right about this not being the Jets of old when it comes to drafting and using offensive players, but where me and you differ is that I don't think you have to take offense in the first round just for the sake of taking it, go best player available D or O

marc55
marc55

@bradysucks @marc55All fair points.  My thinking is that the Receiver position and the corner position, as positions of need, are both relatively close, but with an unknown quantity at Quarterback, and a deep WR class, they should take the corner if it's 1a and 1b in terms of draft rating, because you have a better chance of extracting value from the pick with Rex here.  I'm certainly not against taking a WR though.

bradysucks
bradysucks

@marc55 @bradysucks  


I have stated again and again my feelings about the Jets having used 6 of their last 8 1st round draft picks on d-line or CB......I think it is a bad move not to add some 1st round talent on the offensive side of the ball.....


I understand that if Gilbert or Dennard falls in Idzik's lap that he will have to consider drafting them.....


Rex Ryan can without question make do with less.....though what he already has is very very good