Daily Links: Rocky road




289 comments
Disgruntled Jets Fan
Disgruntled Jets Fan

I'm imagining Fonzie in a basement room, one wall covered with photos of and newspaper articles about Po'uha, all crossed out with a red marker.  On the opposite wall is a shrine to Harrison, complete with a life size wax figure of him.

Bytor
Bytor

@Disgruntled Jets Fan  Don't forget the bronze statue of Mangini on the front lawn as well as Fatheads of Gholston and Elam in his room. HankandSon should have cameras following them around for a reality show. I'd watch. America would too.

Brendan
Brendan

@Disgruntled Jets Fan  Hahaha that's some Ray Finkle ish right there. Love it. Also love the Dolphins parallel between the two. 



FONZIE FINKLE. 

a57se
a57se

@Hanknaples  

I like how Wilkerson was listed as one of the prototypes for the 5 technique!

Bent
Bent moderator

@Hanknaples  


Certainly doesn't describe the likes of Jenkins, Harrison, Ellis or Po'uha all of whom were more of the modern breed of nose tackle capable of two gapping or shooting a gap and with incredible agility for their size.


The Jets haven't played a conventional 3-4 since 2008 anyway, so it's hardly relevant.

Brendan
Brendan

@Bytor They saved up over the past five years and got some gold plating on the Mangini statue. You really should check it out, it's beautiful in the mid afternoon the way the light hits it. 

bobbyj
bobbyj

No one describes the likes of big Jenks, he may very well have been the most dominant player on the interior line, of his generation, just couldn't control the fork to mouth action, then again neither can i

Bytor
Bytor

@Wilkershakes  It's real man! I keep looking for the Spent/Ceifus-ian wink wink. It just never happens. 100% authentic madness.

Brendan
Brendan

@Wilkershakes  Oh, Team Hank is one of a kind (or, I guess two of a kind, technically). It's real. They've been at it for, no exaggeration, 7 or 8 years now. 

Wilkershakes
Wilkershakes

@Brendan @Bytor   This can't be real...has to be pure trolling for trolling's sake.   I just can't.......


*smh*

a57se
a57se

@MPTG_Frank  

Sometimes that is more interesting then lemming stew.

MPTG_Frank
MPTG_Frank

I would say there are any number of things about the Hankesphere that are over the top creepy. Including but not limited to, trying to define one's (probably only) identity in life by trolling for arguments and responses to wacky positions.

Brendan
Brendan

@Bent That's the best part of all this, clearly. 

Bent
Bent moderator

@Brendan @Bent  You know who else loves him?  Damon Harrison.

Brendan
Brendan

@Bent It's insane to me that there is a single Jets fan who dislike Bo. His teammates adore him, his coaches love him and he's one of the most gracious, kind and thankful people that exists on this planet, let alone in sports. 

Bent
Bent moderator

@Wilkershakes I don't have a problem with his praise for Harrison.  In fact it's refreshing to see him do that with a Jets player rather than Alex Mack or Joe Haden or Mike Pouncey or Richie Incognito or Colt McCoy or Ryan Tannehill or Jason Trusnik etc etc


Nobody criticizes Po'uha on my watch though.

Bent
Bent moderator

@Hanknaples  


"Go back to the plays against the Dolphins in 2009 when Ronnie Brown ran a key 3rd down and 4 late in the game "


You're picking one play out of a game where the Jets held Miami to 52 yards on 23 carries.  Hilarious.  Po'uha was very good that day, grading out (even with this mystery play factored in) as the best player on the defense.

Bent
Bent moderator

@Hanknaples  


"Really? I saw the back of Peyton Manning's Jersey clean. I didn't see him running for his life in that game. Pouha did nothing to crush the pocket in that game. If he couldn't then there was no way the jets could get to him and that is exactly what happened. He had all day and picked the jets defense apart. "


They were playing mostly with 7 DBs against arguably the best blitz recognition on-time release QB in NFL history and you're blaming the nose tackle for the fact they got no pressure?  Okay...


By the way, Sione had one pressure in 17 rushes and the Jets overall had 2 sacks, 3 hits and 14 pressures.  Very good pass rush numbers.  The issue was poor coverage from the likes of Coleman, Lowery, Ihedigbo and Smith none of whom would have played as much if not for injuries to Scott, Strickland and Sheppard.

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se @Bent  


"If harrison had 14 per game and po'Uha 15 per game then Po'uha would have had 32 more pass rushh attempts over the two year span you noted to get the same number of pressure 18/2 = 9) and 1 more sack....."


But three sacks is not 1 more sack than one sack!

Wilkershakes
Wilkershakes

@Hanknaples  Is Harrison a family friend or something?  I think he's a really good player, but there's an unhealthy obsession there...

Brendan
Brendan

@Hanknaples He was ready to play immediately after coming from his small school where he didn't face NFL competition and was fundamentally flawed? 


You're weird. 


That year on the bench was fantastic and exactly what a player like Harrison needed. He was not as good in 2012 as he was in 2013, it's a staggering and mindless argument to act like he should have played over Po'uha or anyone else on the team. 


He was an UDFA from a small school with raw skills, he actually developed faster than can be reasonably expected. 

a57se
a57se

@Bent @a57se

I was basing the extra snaps off your info.... 

Po'uha had three sacks and 18 pressures in 2010 and 2011 in a comparable number of pass rush attempts (Harrison 14 per game, Po'uha 15 per game both years)  PRP in 2011 was 4.0.

If harrison had 14 per game and po'Uha 15 per game then Po'uha would have had 32 more pass rushh attempts over the two year span you noted to get the same number of pressure 18/2 = 9) and 1 more sack.....

Bent
Bent moderator

@Hanknaples  Only if Harrison was ready.  The fact he didn't play suggests he would have struggled.  As it happens Po'uha's playing time halved anyway.  Those reps went to DeVito though, so Rex's choice wasn't to play Sione over Harrison it was to play DeVito as the #2 nose.


And spare me the "but he destroyed Chris Myers on the play of the year" speech.  The guy held his ground on one play, something even the injured Po'uha did hundreds of times a season.

Bent
Bent moderator

@Hanknaples @Bent  He wasn't dominated by Saturday at all.  He graded out positively. 


And the Pouncey game was absolutely due to his back.  A few weeks earlier and in the first month of 2012, Po'uha graded positively against the Steelers each time.

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se @Bent @Hanknaples  It's not all about sacks, as I said above.


Also, as I said above, he developed into a better pass rusher as he became a full time starter.


And you said "I bet Harrison had better numbers than Pouha EVER had"


Not sure where you get 32 more pass rush attempts from.


Harrison had one sack in 226 pass rush attempts.  Po'uha had one in 240 in 2011 and two in 238 in 2010.  That's one every 159 pass rush attempts, so yes it was better than Harrison last year if you must use sack rates.

Bent
Bent moderator

@Hanknaples @Bent  As noted, they'd already lost Jenkins for the season and had to activate MTV who had never played in an NFL game before.

a57se
a57se

@Bent @a57se@Hanknaples 

So in 32 more pass rush attempts and in his 5th or 6th season in the league po'uha managed one more sack then  Harrison?

Bent
Bent moderator

@Hanknaples  No, Fonzie, he had a bad back at the end of 2010 and it just affected his play in that one game.  It didn't prevent him from having a great season in 2010 or in 2011 or 2009 for that matter.


And yes, he was plagued with back injuries throughout 2012.

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se @Bent @Hanknaples  


"I don't have access to PFF premium stats but I would imagine that Harrison had much better pass rush metrics then Po'uha ever had. "


I wouldn't have said it if it wasn't true.


Harrison had a sack and nine pressures last year.  Pass rush productivity = 3.7


Po'uha had three sacks and 18 pressures in 2010 and 2011 in a comparable number of pass rush attempts (Harrison 14 per game, Po'uha 15 per game both years)  PRP in 2011 was 4.0.

Bent
Bent moderator

@Hanknaples  Even with a back injury that rendered him barely able to walk the next day?

a57se
a57se

@Bent @Hanknaples

Amazing the guys he considers as good players!

All were role players who were easily replaceable and for the most part, Rex upgraded at every one of those positions!

Bytor
Bytor

@Hanknaples  Might I suggest reading some BGA's for real insight. And that you included Gholston as part of your great nucleus induced an out loud laugh from me. Thanks for the chuckle chuckles.

Bent
Bent moderator

@Hanknaples  Po'uha was struggling badly with a back issue in the Steelers game.  So much so that they had to activate a guy with zero NFL experience (Tevaseu) to back him up.


In that Colts game he graded out positive.

Bent
Bent moderator

@Hanknaples @a57se  If any of what you're saying is true, then Rex would have failed in New York and Mangini would have been a success in Cleveland.  


You're pumping up bad players and criticizing good ones.

Bent
Bent moderator

@Hanknaples @a57se  Bart Scott, Jim Leonhard, Marques Douglas, Lito Sheppard and then the following year Trevor Pryce, Cromartie...do I need to go on?


You're really using Rhodes (who you did nothing but criticize) along with Gholston, Eric Smith, Lowery and Coleman as a "solid nucleus"?  That was dead wood and he upgraded from all of these guys.

a57se
a57se

@Bent @a57se 

I don't have access to PFF premium stats but I would imagine that Harrison had much better pass rush metrics then Po'uha ever had.

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se @Bent  I acknowledged I wasn't comparing those two as pass rushers right at the start of this conversation.


Above I said his production was on a par with Ellis and Harrison as a pass rusher.


And there's more to pass rushing than sacks, especially for a nose tackle.

a57se
a57se

@Bent @a57se 

But 4.5 sacks in 106 games is not very impressive for po'uha especially when you put him in the same breath as Jenkins who had 24 sacks in 108 games.

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se @Bent  When you watch 16 hours of football every Monday, you earn the right to present things such as "Sione Po'uha was good" as fact!

a57se
a57se

@Bent @a57se 

Oh No.....the my opinion is a fact argument!!!

I surrender!

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se  I'm not arguing with anyone, just presenting some facts.  If anyone wants to dispute anything I'm saying, they'll be wrong.

a57se
a57se

@Bent @a57se 

Bent, let's not argue with each other when we are both arguing with IJ!

a57se
a57se

@Hanknaples  

Injuries decimated the secondary...or are you conveniently forgetting that?

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se @Bent  


Po'uha was very athletic.  About the same as Ellis or Harrison I'd say.  And as he developed into a full time starter, his ability to collapse the pocket and shed blocks got better and better and his pass rush production was on a par with either of them.

a57se
a57se

@Hanknaples  

Wrong. He added a few key pieces and CHANGED the entire dynamic of the defense from Mangini's boring bend but don't break, read and react defense to an attacking, set the tone and use multiple fronts and pressure schemes.

a57se
a57se

@Bent @a57se

I would disagree with that Bent....Po'uha didn't have the athleticism Harrison or Ellis has but he was terrific in stcking up the middle.

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se @Hanknaples  "He didn't add much to the pass rush"


About the same as Harrison and Ellis. 

a57se
a57se

@Hanknaples

IJ, be serious. Po'uha was excellent against the run. He didn't add much to the pass rush but he didn't have to as that team had the secondary to shut teams down. they had more coverage sacks then most teams that year.

DrJonathanReefer
DrJonathanReefer

@Hanknaples  


well the D was #1 and # 3  in the NFL with Po'uha starting.

They were 16th Jenkins only full year. I feel like that explains it all.


Bent
Bent moderator

@Hanknaples  Po'uha was athletic and did move forward and crush the pocket just like the other names on that list.  That's why he was successful in that role.


Your hatred of him is ill-informed and bias driven.

Bent
Bent moderator

@Hanknaples  Sione Po'uha is a "tree stump" and I'm being unfair?

Bent
Bent moderator

@Hanknaples  


Jenkins is a much better pass rusher than the other three, I'll grant you that.  However, they're all athletic nose tackles with outstanding production.

Bent
Bent moderator

@Hanknaples  Is that by Manish's definition of interested, which means not really interested but I'm going to say it anyway in case interest develops at a later stage?