Daily Links: Juggling Jumbo




342 comments
bob
bob

Dats Right.

Ceifus Hornswoggle
Ceifus Hornswoggle

I never knew that Marty Mornhinweg was such a terrible head coach.

a57se
a57se

I would be tempted to use a 7th rounder in the Supplemental draft on Traylon Shead from SMU.

6'2" and 240 lbs with some speed at RB would be worth developing behind Ivory.

tsjc68
tsjc68

Looks like Hayward isn't going to Charlotte after all:


The max deal, first reported by the Charlotte Observer, is expected to be worth about $63 million over four seasons.

Hayward, who's been with Utah for four years since being drafted ninth overall in 2010 from Butler, can sign the offer sheet after the NBA's moratorium ends on Thursday. The Jazz will have three days after he signs to match the offer from Michael Jordan's squad.

Expect that to happen.

Multiple sources have insisted the Jazz both anticipated that Hayward, a versatile 6-8 swingman, would receive a hefty offer and that Utah management would match it.

That point was reiterated again late Tuesday when another person with knowledge of the situation told the Deseret News that Hayward agreeing to a max deal with the Hornets is a "non-issue for the Jazz."

In other words, Utah will match.


http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865606572/Gordon-Hayward-agrees-to-contract-offer-sheet-with-Charlotte.html?pg=all 

jsadolph
jsadolph

@a57se 

Please stay on topic.  That would mean Jets, Mets, Celtics, Cavs, Heat, Yankees, WC, Cricket, Rugby, Personal HS experiences, Work Related, Resturaunt preferances, Stand-Up Comedy, Music Videos, funny pictures, Phins, Browns, Delta Blues, Southern Florida Insanity, and Damon Harrison.

tsjc68
tsjc68

Do it.  Do it.  Do it.


Do it.

tsjc68
tsjc68

@a57se

Shead is expected to slide through the entire draft with no offers.  Perhaps signing him as a UDFA is a better option.


Having watched some footage of each of them, I'm much more willing to forfeit a late-rounder on Ross than on Shead.  Shead's okay, but doesn't look either overly physical or particularly elusive.

Brendan
Brendan

@tsjc68 Utah is going to match that!? Okay then. 

a57se
a57se

@tsjc68 

I guess someone knows who Hayward is..:)

Brendan
Brendan

@tsjc68 A top-5 of Calderon/Smith (or Hardaway)/Melo/Pau/Dalembert is 100000000% a playoff team in the East. 

a57se
a57se

@tsjc68 @a57se 

I liked the tape I watched of him running over Safeties and showing good agility, plus he can actually catch a pass.

I'd spend a 7th rounder on him because i wouldn't have to worry about losing out on the guy as there are several teams reportedly sniffing around the guy including the RB needy Giants.


tsjc68
tsjc68

@Brendan

In Utah, there's no such thing as "too much Mike Dunleavy Jr."

jsadolph
jsadolph

@a57se @jsadolph 

I didn't.  I'm at work and they have most videos blocked in a futile attempt to make us work.

jsadolph
jsadolph

@tsjc68 @jsadolph @a57se 

And Hockey. I actually like hockey, but here in Kansas when the season is over I don't here much about it until the season starts again.

tsjc68
tsjc68

@Brendan @tsjc68

1- Jose Calderon, Shane Larkin, Pablo Prigioni

2- JR Smith, Tim Hardaway Jr., Wayne Ellington

3- Carmelo Anthony, Cleanthony Early, Thanasis Antetokounmpo

4- Pau Gasol, Andrea Bargnani, Lamar Odom

5- Sam Dalembert, Jeremy Tyler, Cole Aldrich


Works for me.  I'd like to add one more decent big on a mini-midlevel, but finding one shouldn't be impossible.

a57se
a57se

@Brendan @tsjc68 

Didn't you say basically the same thing last summer about the Knicks line-up with bargs?

Brendan
Brendan

@tsjc68 Apparently not. (Insert Bill Simmons white people/Utah/Hayward joke here)

tsjc68
tsjc68

That, and win the title.

You're allowed to have more than one goal, you know.

juunit
juunit

@tsjc68 @Brendan 

Team already announced Antetokounmpo is getting stashed in Europe/D-league this year.

And I totally forgot we have Lamar Odom already. 

a57se
a57se

@tsjc68 @a57se 

I think upside is debatable.

Given our RB's vs. our NT's, I'd say our long term needs are more prescient at RB.


EDIT:

We could always spend a 6th on Ross and a 7th on Shead!

BDarc23
BDarc23

@tsjc68 @juunit @BDarc23 Just to make his money disappear? Not me. It disappears next year anyway. I would only do the Stat/Barg with Shump/Hardaway deals if it means getting Lebron

juunit
juunit

@tsjc68 @juunit @BDarc23 

Pretty much. Would be real interesting if Jackson could unload both Stoudemire and Bargnani. I know Melo wants Lebron to come to NY. 

juunit
juunit

@tsjc68 

Well, the Brazilians certainly learned that.

BLAMO!

tsjc68
tsjc68

@a57se

We could always spend a 6th on Ross and a 7th on Shead!


I'd be fine with that.


And yes, "upside" wasn't the right word, my bad.  They both have decent upside due simply to measurables.  


What I should have said was "projectability".  I have more concerns about Traylon Shead just not being good enough to play in the league than I do LaKendrick Ross, because Shead looks pretty slow-footed at times.

juunit
juunit

@BDarc23 

Unfortunately, with no draft picks until the next millennium, the team really needs to capitalize on Melo's prime right now. If trading Shump is what it takes, you've gotta do it. There are too many guards to give them all enough minutes anyway. 

tsjc68
tsjc68

@BDarc23 @tsjc68 @juunit

Well, Shump's money is probably going to disappear as well, he's not likely to get a second contract from us.


So, why not use him to accomplish something of value (namely, clearing STAT's money a year earlier than anticipated so that you can add some pieces to help Melo out this year?

a57se
a57se

@tsjc68 @a57se @Brendan 

OK, it used to be 12 men...Apparently they changed it to 13 in 2012. That is the playing roster...15 is the max under contract.



Bent
Bent moderator

@tsjc68 @a57se I don't think you'd need to give up a pick for either.

tsjc68
tsjc68

@juunit @BDarc23

The only future first rounder we've traded away is the 2016 pick.  (Denver gets to swap with us, but whichever pick they don't get goes to Toronto).


We've traded away the next three second rounders, though.

BDarc23
BDarc23

@juunit @BDarc23 but trading Shump for what? Just getting rid of Stats contract which is in it's last year? Does it make more sense to get a pick for Shump?


BDarc23
BDarc23

@tsjc68 @BDarc23 @juunit Well I don't think getting rid of Stat helps much... i think they are so far over that they need to get rid of Bargs too

tsjc68
tsjc68

@Bent @tsjc68 @a57se

My preference is to give up a 7th for Ross and try to sign Shead as a UDFA.


Ross is the only guy I think who actually merits a pick in this supplemental, and no better than a 6th or a 7th.

juunit
juunit

@BDarc23 @juunit 

Well ideally if you package Stat and Shump you're getting something of actual value in return, like that draft pick.

tsjc68
tsjc68

@BDarc23 @juunit

If you're going to reinvest that money in something that helps, like Pau Gasol, yeah, that helps.

tsjc68
tsjc68

@BDarc23 @tsjc68 @juunit

If you clear STAT before signing Melo, you could probably afford to bring in Pau Gasol and one other piece and then use the Bird rights to pay Melo.

BDarc23
BDarc23

@juunit @BDarc23 Yeah but the sixers aren't giving you a 1st rounder to take Stat...that is why the Knicks have to include the Shump sweetner.

tsjc68
tsjc68

@juunit @BDarc23

For taking on Stat, even with Shump, I doubt we're getting anything better than a second rounder.


Maybe two second rounders, or a second rounder and a flyer on a depth guy (which is currently 100% of the Sixers roster, so... yeah.)

juunit
juunit

@a57se @BDarc23 @tsjc68 @juunit 

Traded for him. But agreed. It was a dumb move to get him. He's always been an underachieving injury riddled one way playing bum. And we gave up a 1st for him. 

BDarc23
BDarc23

@tsjc68 @BDarc23 @juunit ok, I guess we are talking about different levels of help. I am thinking Lebron/Bosh.  Pau is fine but he has back issues and is a risk. Then they are stuck in the same boat again with bad contracts

tsjc68
tsjc68

@a57se @tsjc68 @Brendan

The reason to be snarky about it is you are so often so convinced of your righteousness and objectivity on so many issues and yet so frequently don't understand the basic facts at hand for the topic being discussed.


If you don't know the topic thoroughly, perhaps you should take a less haughty tone and defer to the wisdom of others who might know more than you about the subject at hand.

juunit
juunit

@BDarc23 @juunit 

I doubt I'd include Shump if the Sixers or whoever weren't giving up a 1st in the deal. 

a57se
a57se

@juunit @a57se @BDarc23 @tsjc68 

You are right, i forgot all about the draft pick...one of the cumbest moves all-time...and I remember brendan arguing with me about it at the time.

tsjc68
tsjc68

@juunit @BDarc23

I doubt Shump + Stat gets you a first rounder regardless (unless it's got CRAZY protections on in, like "top-25 protected through 2020".)


But Shump + Stat probably gets you a second rounder and a throw in, and I'd take that in order to get two things of value + money to sign Pau Gasol vs. sitting on Shump and Stat and letting them just walk next year for who knows what.

Brendan
Brendan

@juunit The only way you're getting someone to take $23 million of Amare is to sweeten the pot a bit. 


You're not trading him without including one of Shump or Hardawarey, most likely. 

tsjc68
tsjc68

@a57se @tsjc68 @BDarc23 @juunit

It does change your point, because we didn't SIGN that horrible player to that horrible contract, we traded a horrible player on a horrible contract for a different horrible player on a different horrible contract.


Those are two very different things.

juunit
juunit

@tsjc68 

I'd hope it does, especially with Stat staying healthy and proving he's still got some value. 

BDarc23
BDarc23

@tsjc68 If you can guarantee Melo and Pau then let's shake on it.


Edit: I think Shump stinks btw

Bent
Bent moderator

@BDarc23 @juunit


Stat's contract will expire eventually, at which point it goes from being an albatross to an asset.

juunit
juunit

@BDarc23 @juunit 

To get rid of a longer contract is the only thing I can think of. Although, he did seem to prove he can stay healthy last season. So he's not the complete black hole of value he was two years ago. 

juunit
juunit

@Brendan @juunit 

Probably. And I'm OK with it because we've added Calderon and Larkin. There just isn't enough to go around for everyone, so trading someone makes sense. If it has to be Shump, so be it. 

BDarc23
BDarc23

@tsjc68 @Brendan @BDarc23 You guys should take another look at their careers and age... and also consider the rosters they played on the last 2 years when considering the statistics.

Brendan
Brendan

@BDarc23 Shump doesn't stink, he's an offensively challenged player who does a lot of other things at an above-average level. 

a57se
a57se

@BDarc23 

Shump has some really good athleticism but as a basketball player, he doesn't impress me.

tsjc68
tsjc68

@BDarc23 @tsjc68

I GUARANTEE* IT!!!!


(*guarantee not legally binding, enforceable, or effective in any way whatsoever)

Brendan
Brendan

@juunit I am leaning towards keeping Hardaway because his offensive game is already on pace to be much better than Shump's. He's athletic and tough so you can teach him defense. 

Brendan
Brendan

@BDarc23 No need, I am aware that Bosh is younger. And I'm not sure we can really talk statistics since Pau had Kobe on his team, the biggest ball hog on the planet. If it's a short-term contract that would keep the cap in a flexible situation, I'm fine with it. 

bklyndude
bklyndude

@Brendan @BDarc23

Shump is more inconsistent than offensively challenged.  He was knocking down shots the last time the Knicks were in the playoffs and was a player with value.

After last season under Woodson,  he lost his confidence offensively, which I hope he can regain under Derek Fisher,  if he's still here.

juunit
juunit

@Brendan @juunit 

Perfect world we get rid of Smith. But that's not gonna happen, especially not if he's being packaged with Stat. Honestly, Shump's defense probably compliments some of the other guys better. But it seems like Shump is trade piece, not Hardaway. 

BDarc23
BDarc23

@Brendan @BDarc23 I'm fine with it too. I thought you were saying that Pau is currently better and I would say that is crazy. Also- Pau didn't have Kobe the last year and he has really declined.

tsjc68
tsjc68

@Brendan @BDarc23

Bosh is a better player overall, but Pau is a better signing for this team.


He's cheaper, he's better offensively, he knows and fits the triangle and what Phil/Fisher are trying to do, he spaces the floor for Melo better.

BDarc23
BDarc23

@bklyndude @Brendan @BDarc23 His career avgs are 26 min 7 ppg and 39% fg shooting and his best season was his rookie year. That's just bad offense for 26 minutes per game.

Brendan
Brendan

@juunit I also don't know if that's the perfect world, either. Yeah, he's an idiot who does dumb stuff occasionally (often), but he's also BY FAR the most talented 2 on the roster. JR on his best day takes steamy dumps on the rest of the roster, and he's able to carry the team for stretches. I think in an offense (assuming they go triangle) where he will get plenty of spot-up jumpshots and open 3's is something he'll like. 

(phonecall between Phil and Smith)


"Hey, JR, if you don't tweet any ass shots or underage come-ons, we'll let you stand on the wing and just bombs away. Deal?" 


*loud whistling inhale*


"Sure. (muffled coughing)" 

tsjc68
tsjc68

@juunit @Brendan

Yeah, that'd be ideal, but of the three bad contracts to move, moving STAT or Bargs is more realistic since they're both expirings anyway.


You can use Shump to clear STAT or Bargs, but if you want to clear JR, you probably have to deal AWAY a pick to do that.


No thanks.

bklyndude
bklyndude

@BDarc23 @bklyndude @Brendan

If you look solely at the numbers, that is bad offense.  But if you watched the team, you know Shump was hurt starting last season and wasn't able to build off his playoff stint where he was knocking down his outside shot and show'd that he had improved it to the point where he was on the verge of becoming the second best player on the team during that stretch.

I hate getting rid of players when there value is so low.  I would like to see him on a team where there isn't so much isolation and standing around.  I'm guessing so would Phil unless it becomes a necessity to keeping Carmelo.

juunit
juunit

@Brendan @juunit 

Ha yeah. I just hate him. And he shoots the team out of more games than he carries them in. I'm not sure how well inconsistent shooting meshes with the triangle. 

tsjc68
tsjc68

@Brendan @juunit

I don't know if I'm ready to live in a world where JR Smith is not allowed to tweet ass-shots.

tsjc68
tsjc68

@BDarc23 @tsjc68 @Brendan

Now, if both Bosh and Pau were currently in the 8-10M stratosphere, I'd probably pick Bosh.  But the much higher pricetag on Bosh + the natural system fit for Pau + his ability to help Fish be a coach on the floor as we install the triangle... it makes complete sense.

Brendan
Brendan

@juunit Well, they'd have to be the first team to ever get JR to buy into a gameplan other than "do whatever JR wants." 

Brendan
Brendan

@tsjc68 Neither am I, especially considering my love of lady asses in general, particularly the kind that JR likes too. 

juunit
juunit

@Brendan @juunit 

Yeah, that's probably going to be a pretty big pitfall to making it work. One of the requirements for the triangle is basketball IQ...

tsjc68
tsjc68

@juunit @Brendan

I foresee JR getting the "angry glare followed by quick hook" from Coach Fish a lot on the early going.


Let's see if he adjusts accordingly.