Draft Watch: Collegiate & Shrine player notes

NCAA Football: NFLPA Collegiate Bowl

We’ve been knocked out with the flu for a few days, but are getting our feet back under us today.  Here’s some news and notes from the college all-stars games from last week.

DE/OLB Will Clarke, West Virginia — Outside linebackers in Ryan’s system need to have size and speed to be able to beat a tackle or tight end to the quarterback, but they better also be able to set the edge.  At the Shrine game, Clarke demonstrated his first step and with his size and strength showed that he can disrupt play at the line.  Clarke is expected to be a mid-round talent in the May draft.

FB JC Copeland, LSU — The Jets might not be willing to move away from Tommy Bohannon after one season, but Copeland was named the Collegiate Bowl’s MVP after scoring two touchdowns.  At 270 pounds and being a former defensive tackle (sound familiar?) Copeland is a great blocker, but is also quite capable of carrying the football when necessary.

TE Chris Coyle, Arizona State — Heading into the Combine, Coyle is a mid-round talent but apparently he had scouts buzzing at the Senior Bowl.  Coyle is an H-back/tight end type and he did a good job in practice of catching the ball out of a number of looks and routes.  Optimum Scouting reports that he is a receiver first and foremost and while willing to be a better blocker needs improvement in that area of his game to see significant time on the field in the NFL.

CB Pierre Desir Lindenwood — Ryan loves press corners, and Desir has the size and aggressiveness required to press.  While Desir didn’t get a chance to show off his shill there at the Shrine game, he could be gone in the first three rounds of the NFL Draft because of his projected skills in the pros.

RB Roy Finch, Oklahoma — Finch is just the sort of running back that the Jets need right now, a speedy running back with a burst can break a play with just one missed assignment.  He also could project into a special team returner … something the Jets need going forward.

QB Jimmy Garoppolo, Eastern Illinois — Garoppolo is one of the most interesting developmental quarterback names in this year’s classe.  Garoppolo will be participating in the Senior Bowl this week and with a solid week in Mobile might cement himself as a second rounder once scouts can make an apples to apples comparison about his play. Garoppolo is productive, smart and able to get rid of the ball quickly, things many NFL coaches and scouts look for in young quarterbacks.

DE Josh Mauro, Stanford — Mauro was a jack of all trades in college, playing in a number of spots on the Stanford defensive front.  While he can generate pressure from the inside, he doesn’t have the edge-speed that would otherwise make him a higher draft pick.  For the Jets, Mauro might project as a run-stuffing edge-setter or goal-line defender in their defense.

WR Tony Washington, Appalachian State – Washington had a great week of practices at the Collegiate Bowl, catching a number of difficult passes and showing his athleticism time and time again in practices.  Washington might be a late pick, but his combination of athleticism, speed and kick return duties in college might make him an interesting prospect for a team like the Jets.

TE Brian Wozniak, Wisconsin — Wozniak was the second fiddle in Wisonsin to Jacob Pederson, but he showed a well-rounded game in practice and in the bowl game.  At best, Woz might be a third day draft pick, but some team will take a look and see what he is capable of with some time in a pro system.

S Demetrius Wright, Southern Cal – Wright was a late addition to the Collegiate Bowl and is just the sort of player that Rex Ryan loves.  He’s versatile as a safety, able to play in zone as well as man coverage and has the speed to close quickly on the ball once it is in the air.




251 comments
UncleJoesJetFarm
UncleJoesJetFarm

The conversation on the blog today has been awesome! I really was enlightened on many topics. We have a lot to look forward to as Jets fans. Let's keep it rockin!

UncleJoesJetFarm
UncleJoesJetFarm

I am hearing all this talk about hand size, but they say it is cleat size that matters, lol

Brendan
Brendan

Mark Brunnell just threw Jimmy Smith and Aeneas Williams' names out on NFL Live. I feel like I'm 12 years old again!

rstysanchz
rstysanchz

just saying watkins evans and lee are all gone at 18 are jordan matthews and allen robinson that much of a step down that they are not worth taking at 18??

harold
harold

I would take either if we trade back but not at 18. That is just bad value. You have to play the board so in that case you may take a little less in a trade to drop back some and still get a player you want later in the first or at the top of the second.

harold
harold

Good player 18 is way to high he is a solid 2nd round pick. If you got in the 30's he isa good pick. In the teens he is a stretch, imo.

marcus81
marcus81

@haroldKelvin Benjamin is ranked next best receiver after the top 3, but I would take TE Ebron 1st if he's there

Brendan
Brendan

@harold But when you have 12 picks, how many more picks do you realistically want to pick up? I guess sliding back in the 1st to pick up a 2nd would be worth it, but eventually you hit a point where you can't keep picking up more picks of lesser value. 

juunit
juunit

@harold@juunit 

Sure, though I personally didn't agree with that valuation of Frederick. As I'd said during the lead up to the draft, everyone said Zeitler was both 2nd tier and 2nd round, then he went in the 1st way before people "expected" him too. Frederick, if anything, was better than Zeitler. Frederick was the guy I wanted us to pick at 39, though obviously that wasn't possible. 

But, the way I see it... If we have a player, like Robinson, high up on our board, and we think he's going to be good while he also fills a need, I see no reason not to take him, even though we might think we can wait another round for him. 

It's like playing blackjack. You can hit when you have 15 and the dealer is showing a 4. Or, you can be conservative and stay, or in this case, get the guy you want. Since most people consider coming away from a draft with 2 starters as a good one, getting one in the 1st, even if he's a "reach" should be considered a win. Yeah, maybe 10 years later you can say it wasn't the perfect move to draft that guy at that spot. But as long as he does well for you, who cares? 

rstysanchz
rstysanchz

From alot of mocks robinson dosent make it past the first round...from what I seen of him I wouldnt mind taking him with 18...but def dont go by me I wanted us to draft kenny britt a couple years ago

harold
harold

But to me if you are sound and minimize risk by drafting players at a place you can live with them is okay. I think at 18 when you need a guarantee if the player is not rated that highly you dont take them there. You find value or you trade out.

a57se
a57se

@harold@juunit 

and if you are willing to take the risk then it is worth it when it pans out.

harold
harold

@juunit@harold


By reach I simply mean if you can acquire the player later and get more value doing it than why take the player now.  Seahawks liked Russell Wlison in 2nd round but felt by his value they could get him in the 3rd which they did. 


Frederick was the starting Center for the Cowboys and played pretty well for a rookie. but people were surprised because you could've gotten him in the 2nd by most accounts.  That is my point.

juunit
juunit

@harold 

I just don't buy into the "reach" thing. If he's a starting WR, then he's worth a high pick. James Harrison went undrafted. He'd have been a "bad pick" in the first round. Except, he actually would've been an excellent pick in the first round, because in reality he was a great player in the NFL. People were simply wrong about him.

Robinson is 6'3, he's not skinny, he had the second most YAC in the country this season. He has strong hands and playmaking ability. He actually put up numbers in school and isn't just a potential kind of player. There's really no reason why he's not worth the 18th pick.

harold
harold

I think you are underestimating him a great deal. I said he was good at finding holes. But he also was effective against man. But it seemed teams tried more bracket than straight man because he would be too much too handle one on one.

a57se
a57se

@harold 

I agree he is good at finding openings in zones but he is easily covered one on one from what I have seen and he isn't that great at out physicalling guys who are covering him. I really see him  and his production as a product of their system.

harold
harold

@kniff@harold


I think drafting an O-line in the first 4 rounds is a solid strategy.  I hope we leave the first 4 rounds (expected 6 picks).  With 2 WR's. TE, all- around RB prospect, OLB and OG.


In F/A... 1 Quality WR, CB,  and Rangy MLB.


Not counting our own F/A

kniff
kniff

@harold @kniff I hear ya' Harold, I'm not opposed to an inexpensive Vlad, shoot he knows Martys' Offense and we have some cap room! We can and should draft an O line monster(s) for depth as we get younger and stronger... 


Your perspective gives us more FA ability at the crucial WR position... (two studs perhaps) and enables TE Jace Amaro for our 18th pick.. (smiles)


After all, we're trying to provide pass protection to an elevated level in 2014...


harold
harold

@kniff@harold


I would still bring back Vlad on the cheap as a back up.  Not a big deal but not opposed to Vlad coming back.  Also Winters got better as season went along.  Only giving up one sack over the last few games.  If he can continue to get better we may have something. 


P.S.  I thought Vlad should've started over Winters and I have ripped Winters on here.  But if he can continue to adjust he can be as good as Slauson.

kniff
kniff

@harold We might be on point to get another season from Willie Colon, keep Winters for depth, and go FA for a Slausen (or better) type Guard... if that doesn't materialize in a timely fashion, we can draft the biggest O line monster we can find!!


I think we can let Vlad go at this point...

harold
harold

Then we better realease purdum right away. No need to carry both.

harold
harold

@kniff

Your f/a picks are good except swap lg for rg. We invested a whole season in Winters doubt if they get a lg in f/a.

kniff
kniff

@Bent @a57se I could see prioritizing WR and LG in FA, then addressing some other needs by seeing what later develops in FA, and then going BPA...

harold
harold

@a57se

Almost no one drafts soley based bpa. If they did we would never be able to figure out who people were drafting. Because based on who they rated higher the whole draft would constatnly be turned on its head. But we know this is not how team draft. We need to stop with this over used term.

Bent
Bent moderator

@harold I thought he was the long snapper of the future!

harold
harold

@Bent

I though we already had Dalton Freeman.

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se @Bent I'm surprised all mocks don't just go BPA for the Jets on the basis that the Jets stink and therefore whoever they get must be an upgrade.

Bent
Bent moderator

@harold Well, we could draft the center of the future and play him at guard for the next four or five years.

a57se
a57se

@Bent

That is the basic idea isn't it? Address all your needs in FA then draft the best player available? 

Too bad we have too many needs to do that.

Most of the extended mocks are based on computer models and they have a matrix they fill in for team needs.

I don't think they do a very good job in filing in the Jets needs...but then again the people who do it aren't really Jets fans so they probably go by whatever they read in the media.

Plus they don't have the comp picks incorporated yet either so that will really throw a monkey wrench in the works as they add another round of selections.

harold
harold

Center, left tackle also are not being drafted early. Bpa sounds good but it is a easy way to explain drafting not a declaration on it.

Brendan
Brendan

@harold I think that's the only position on the entire team you take off the table for the BPA strategy. It's the only one imo that's 100% solidified. 

harold
harold

Bpa is good but will we take another dt/ 3-4 def end. Not likely. Best player at position of need unless you think it is a once in a generation player.

harold
harold

When watching Amaro a few things stood out to me. He was real savvy running through zones to open space. Also made himself available to the qb. I like his speed, he was faster than I thought he would be. He is not Vernon Davis but he looked good.

His blocking was tough to fairly evalute but it looked poor. But as a receiver he looks ready to contribute on an NFL field from day one.

harold
harold

I just think if want to do it go based on what you expect the team to do in f/a. Like we resign Howard so we wont need a tackle. Everyone has us taking a tackle. Not sure why they dont at least do that.

a57se
a57se

@harold 

I watched several of Amaro's games and he does not impress me at all.

He seems to be more a product of the system at TTU then a really good TE to me. he does show good hands from what I've seen but otherwise, .......meh.

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se @Brendan  It's too early for extended mocks.  Teams will address needs in free agency and then everyone will change their draft projections.

harold
harold

I have read the extended mocks. They are very bad at addressing the jets needs.

a57se
a57se

@Brendan@a57se 

Hey I didn't make those choices..........the extended mocks have us drafting a TE and a WR then drafting defense and OL......I'm ready to pull my hair out.

harold
harold

I like Ebron, but like ASJ and Amaro more. I prefer ASJ because in watching him he seems like the player who is most pro ready. He is an improved blocker and quality

Receiver. Because with Rex as coach we will always run the ball afair amount.

a57se
a57se

@marcus81

A few newer mocks have us taking Benjamin over Lee at 18!!!!

Pat d
Pat d

Players move up and down mock drafts but the good teams do their homework and they have scouted the players and should know who is who before the combine.

harold
harold

We got Richardson last year which was a huge break in hindsight. If you pick good players you wil be okay. They have 7 rounds for reason.

a57se
a57se

@frustjetfn

I agree, I really wish we had been 6-10 this year, the options would be so much more appealing.

Right now we need things to break in our facor which hardly ever happens for us.

frustjetfn
frustjetfn

@a57se@Brendan@haroldOnce you have a full complement of 7 picks placement is more important than number. That becomes evident when the quality player you really covet is being targeted by the team(s) a few slots ahead of you.

This draft is either going to be very exciting or extremely frustrating depending on who falls into the mediocre 8-8 team range and what Idzik is willing to do to get his man.

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se Huh?  No, I thought that was a good point you made earlier that you should have low expectations for a 7th round pick.  They don't matter that much ... wasn't that what you were saying earlier and again now?  I thought I was agreeing with you.

a57se
a57se

@Bent

Are you purposely trying to irritate me for no friggin' reason?

harold
harold

Cooks looks like he may be athletic enough to play on the outside like steve smith or desean jackson. With our second third round pick I would grab him.i

As for Robinson and Matthews the combine will be big for both because speed is a question mark for both. So lets see how it shakes out.

Brendan
Brendan

@Bent I obviously say that with the caveat that it's not a guarantee, but I should probably state that more often. 

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se @Bent @Brendan @harold I completely agree - as you said earlier 7th rounders don't count.


I have to point this out from time to time so there's no lynch mob saying "BENT PROMISED US 12 PICKS!!!"

harold
harold

Great point I know on the jets site they still have it as 10-12 picks. Hopefully it is 12. Because I dont mind trading up once for a player you want who really fits your program.

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se @Brendan @harold  Remember we're not definitely getting 12 picks.  I reiterate this passage from my projection article:


"The one caveat to this is that Bell and Slauson’s salary might be too low. In past seasons there have been guys who earned slightly above the minimum but did not qualify. Bell is earning the minimum, whereas Slauson is earning $100K over the minimum (but actually $125K less than Bell because Bell is so much older). In recent years, many players receiving the minimum have qualified and the fact that minimum level contracts are becoming more prevalent in recent years would hopefully alleviate this concern. It likely helps that both Slauson and Bell have easily met the playing time criteria already."


Apparently the lowest salaried player to attract a comp pick last year was $890K which is less than Bell's salary but more than Slauson's so those two aren't definitely locked in.  I know there are at least two other teams who think they're getting four picks and there's only 32 to share around.

a57se
a57se

@harold 

Cooks is a slot receiver.......I wouldn't put him on my wish list.

Robinson, Matthews seem slated for the late first round.......It isn't as simple as you make it sound.

harold
harold

Exactly we have 4 picks in the first 3 rounds. We easily get two solid prospects. Like Allen Robinson, Brandin Cooks, Moncrief, Jordan Matthews etc. Based on combines wr will move a lot. We can still get some good ones being patient

a57se
a57se

@haroldI don't think the quality WR prospects will last.......there are 15 to 18 guys who will probably be gone by the end of the third round. After that it mostly projects who probably never make it.

harold
harold

I think you use the picks to get players you target. But with our roster 9 or 10 rookies could make our team, depending on what we do in f/a.

harold
harold

Also keep in mind I am not adverse to trading up for the right player. However with so many quality wr's I think I would target the TE early and the wr throughout the draft and hope to hit on one or two of the wideouts. Unless I just loved a particular wideout.

harold
harold

I am talking about chess not checkers...lol just kidding but you may exchange picks this year. You get picks for next to balance out the remainder of the trade.

a57se
a57se

@Brendan@harold 

I agree. Even 12 picks seems like a bit much. I think we have enough flexibility due to the comp picks to move around a little and get guys we really want without sacrificing a full draft.