Leger Douzable, Muhammad Wilkerson,Quinton Coples, Damon Harrison

What happened at Training Camp today?

SNY’s Andrew Johnston and Leonard Orman are at Jets Training Camp, and here’s their dispatch of what they saw and heard from Tuesday’s camp…

Johnston:

Defense

  • Defense flying around the ball. Made life tough on the offense during team drills.
  • Testy practice. Guys really getting after their teammates on the other side of the ball.
  • Defensive front looks impenetrable. Sheldon Richardson spent a fair amount of time with Karl Dunbar working on technique during individuals.
  • Defensive backs at times look lost. Without a doubt the weakness of the defense. Milliner shows signs of improvement then takes a step back. Antonio Allen has impressed. Might be my underdog of the day.

Offense

  • Both quarterbacks showing signs of comfort with the playcalls although both are much better throwing the ball vertically then laterally. Geno Smith has continually impressed throughout camp. Much more poised and better decision making.
  • Running backs have been solid. The three-headed monster has been an anchor for the offense. All three guys are comfortable with the sharing of rushes…for now.
  • Wide receivers have been hit or miss. Eric Decker and Jeremy Kerley impressed during individuals. Juked the corners out of their shoes during red zone drills. Hakim Salim has rebounded from his early camp drops, could be a sleeper in the WR mix due to his speed.

Orman:

  • Defense dominated today’s practice.
  • Jace Amaro was back at practice, but he struggled and had a poor day.
  • Demario Davis had a pick-six vs Geno Smith. Had a great practice and almost had two more picks. He was flying all over the field.
  • Tajh Boyd continued to struggle in camp.
  • Oday Aboushi did a nice job in pass blocking drills.
  • Jacoby Ford looks really good as a kick returner.
  • Geno had a long touchdown pass to Greg Salas, who’s having a good camp.



168 comments
rstysanchz
rstysanchz

i love all the positive reports i am hearing about sudfield it will be great if he has a good year...seems like a nice guy with all his charity work but the fact we grabbed him from the patriots will make it so much better...if we can somehow get some sacks and ints on brady from cunningham and  dowling 

marcus81
marcus81

Cooks is doing good with the Saints, hope he doesn't become the one that got away, although the Saints will do a better job developing him than the Jets

Marvel_
Marvel_

just like to point out we are arguing over the very last WR spot... thats wonderful on many levels. 


*back to defending Salas

Marvel_
Marvel_

Wonder how guys like Cooks and DAT are doing, can't wait for games to start. Our rooks seem to be on  a slow curve so I'm glad we are not in the HOF game.

Marvel_
Marvel_

With Saunders and Ford in the return game, that may be the most underrated upgrade(s) of the off season.


Geno with field position is a different QB.

Marvel_
Marvel_

Salas trying to steal a spot. Can't trust thieves tho.


Fwiw he did look good at times last season, I seem to remember a lack of breakaway speed.


Better to Have too many good player than not enough.



WW85
WW85

@rstysanchz Would be amazing to have 2 stud TEs Sudfeld & Amaro

BDarc23
BDarc23

@marcus81 I agree but every team will have passed on some great player in this draft. We then get to hear from people how they told us all that they wanted the Jets to draft Alshon Jeffery instead of Hill and so on.

rstysanchz
rstysanchz

@marcus81 cooks has a future hall of famer throwing him the ball and he dosent have the pressure in new orleans of getting off to a fast start....i think those 2 reasons are going to make cooks a good player so he will look like the one that got away 

Paul Samuels
Paul Samuels

@Marvel_ I just hope that both of the 4th round WR's make the team. That would look bad if they didn't. 

juunit
juunit

@Marvel_ 

Well, for me at least, it's because I see Enunwa as being capable of much more than the last guy on the depth chart. At least, eventually. 

tsjc68
tsjc68

@Marvel_

Cooks was earning raves from Twitter peeps at Saints camp.  Haven't heard much about DAT.

Disgruntled Jets Fan
Disgruntled Jets Fan

Fix the specials and get back to a reasonable turnove ratio, and the jets are already a better team.

SackDance99
SackDance99

@Marvel_ IMO, he's mining the same territory as Shaq and Nelson.  The big possession WR.  Shaq is, however, the shortest and worst at route-running, so far.  Part of my theory that Shaq could end up on the PS.

juunit
juunit

@Marvel_ 

If I remember correctly, Salas only made a few catches and they all seemed to be well schemed and defenses seemed to totally lose track of Salas. 


I think people should probably temper their expectations for him.

tsjc68
tsjc68

@juunit @Marvel_

And I agree, and I think Idzik and Rex and Marty and Salas agree as well.


Greg Salas is a really nice, capable young WR.  He's just not one of the 8 best that we have, that's all. 

Marvel_
Marvel_

@tsjc68 


we know about ODB jr... no shots, but hes in Amaro territory.

jenkins
jenkins

@SackDance99 @Marvel_ they'll stash Evans for a year, wonder why he doesn't get it, and then cut him next year. 


I'd keep Enunwa if they keep one for potential.

Marvel_
Marvel_

@tsjc68 


Did we not think McKnight would eventually be better than woodhead?


At some point you have to reward results or the competition motto is rendered useless.

jsadolph
jsadolph

@Marvel_ @juunit 

Exactly.  He will be no better than 4th.  So I think he has earned his praise, with that as your expectations.  But with the competition this yr he could be cut.  I don't see a huge gap between the 4th WR and 9th WR.

Bent
Bent moderator

@Marvel_ @tsjc68 "Did we not think McKnight would eventually be better than woodhead?"


Nope.  And I was called an idiot numerous times for being right about that.

tsjc68
tsjc68

@Marvel_ @tsjc68

At some point you have to reward results or the competition motto is rendered useless.


We are.


Nelson won a spot through competition.  Sudfeld did.  Aboushi is now.  Simms pushed McElroy off the roster.  There's numerous others.


Competition is real.  So are number crunches.

SackDance99
SackDance99

@juunit @Marvel_ It's likely that Shaq will get the nod because of draft position, but Salas is, so far, the "best of the rest" after Decker, Kerley, Nelson, Hill and Ford.


Folks may not like it, but from what I saw, Hill's a lock to make the roster.

Marvel_
Marvel_

@juunit 


I mean if these camp reports are worth anything ,he should at least have a shot.

Marvel_
Marvel_

@tsjc68 


"Today " matters if and when someone has to step up do to injury,

SackDance99
SackDance99

@tsjc68 @SackDance99 @juunit @Marvel_ Well, there's yesterday (better), today (better) and tomorrow (speculative that the rookies will overtake him).  It's a much tougher call than you make it seem, and you know that....

psi1
psi1

I agreed with you dude. McKnight was kept because he was a mid round draft pick. All Woodhead did that summer was produce. Dumb move.

BDarc23
BDarc23

@tsjc68 @Marvel_

Nelson won a spot through competition.

Wasn't he a mid year pickup?

Sudfeld did

Wasn't he a waiver claim after TC?

 Aboushi is now

Same as Salas 

Simms pushed McElroy off the roster

Ok

juunit
juunit

@SackDance99 @juunit @Marvel_ 

We've got Decker, Kerley, Nelson and Hill who are locks IMO.

I think both Saunders and Evans will also be locks because of draft position. 

Enunwa should make it, because I wouldn't expect him to clear waivers. But, he was always going to be a longer term project and he started off injured, so it may be hard to justify his roster spot with guys like Ford and Salas knocking on the door. 

I do kind of expect us to carry an abnormal number of WRs though, like we did with OL last year. So maybe we'll have 8 WRs. 

tsjc68
tsjc68

@Marvel_ @tsjc68

If injury strikes, we'll call Salas again (if he's available).  


And if he isn't, we'll go find the next Salas, like we did last year... with Salas.

Bent
Bent moderator

@BDarc23 @tsjc68 @Marvel_ Harrison is the best example of a guy who won a job in camp.  He could easily have been bumped off the 53 if he had an unimpressive camp or got hurt.


Prior to the draft (before they got Richardson and Douzable) the depth chart was Wilkerson-Ellis-Garay in base with Harrison backing up Ellis and in the sub package the tackles were Wilkerson and Garay with Harrison backing up Mo and Ellis backing up Garay.

SackDance99
SackDance99

@WW85 @SackDance99 He's a lock.  He's the likely PR and will help on KR (esp. if Ford gets hurt, again) and he's a natural for some slot duty to spell Kerley or to come in on speed packages with Ford.

SackDance99
SackDance99

@juunit @SackDance99 @Marvel_ The only reason that I'm on the Salas train is that he's in the "Decker" role as the X on the second team and he's been killing it.  So, with Saunders as the back up in the slot and Hill and Nelson battling at the Z, with Ford as the 4th WR/speed Z/possible slot.  Salas' competition is Shaq and it's very possible that Marty and Idzik will opt for experience at the X.


So, while Nelson, IMO, could easily be Decker's back up, too.  From what I saw, Salas is just a bit faster and shiftier, making him better suited to back Decker up.

tsjc68
tsjc68

@juunit @SackDance99 @Marvel_

Everything that Juunit just said.


WE KEEP EITHER 6, 7, OR 8:

1-Decker

2-Kerley

3-Nelson

4-Hill OR Ford

5-Saunders (due to draft position/upside)

6-Evans (due to draft position/upside)

7-Ford OR Hill

8-Enunwa (due to draft position/upside)

9-Salas

10-Gates

11-Hakim

12-Campbell



Marvel_
Marvel_

@juunit


why wouldn't Enunwa (an injured project) clear waivers ?

juunit
juunit

@SackDance99 @juunit @Marvel_ 

I wouldn't think Nelson is in any danger though. He's actually a good receiver and he's already got some chemistry with the young QB. So, if Salas' chance to make the team is based on his ability to back up Decker better than Nelson can, I think Salas is s*** out of luck and a job.

tsjc68
tsjc68

@SackDance99 @juunit @Marvel_

Salas' competition is Shaq and it's very possible that Marty and Idzik will opt for experience at the X.


Doubt it.  


I would be legitimately shocked if Idzik and Rex and Marty and Sanjay Lal all decide to pick Greg Salas over Shaq Evans's considerable upside.


If anything, the steady production of Decker/Nelson/Kerley makes it EASIER to cut Salas and roll the dice with Evans.

WW85
WW85

@tsjc68 Enunwa draft position? 6th rounders get cut all the time. Idzik signed Ford as well. The better player will make the team.

juunit
juunit

@Marvel_ @juunit 

He's not actually injured any more. Or, he's at least healthy enough to get on the field. I don't know if he's really playing at full tilt or not.

But he's got a really high ceiling. He fell to the 6th round for a multitude of reasons, but I'm almost 100% sure every team gave him a draftable grade. Somebody with a bunch of crap at the bottom of their WR depth chart will snap him up. Beastly size/speed freaks are pretty desirable at WR, especially in today's game. 

tsjc68
tsjc68

@Marvel_ @juunit

Q: Why wouldn't Enunwa (an injured project) clear waivers?

A: He's a really, really intriguing project that a lot of teams would be really interested in snatching away and developing.  And NFL teams do just that, all the time.

Bent
Bent moderator

@Marvel_ @juunit Carolina just waived their sixth round RB who is out for the season so they could put him on IR.  The Pats claimed him...much like they did with Jake Ballard.

Marvel_
Marvel_

@SackDance99 @Marvel_


If he starts attacking the ball (which also creates defensive P.I calls) he is very valuable. Hopefully he's improved.

juunit
juunit

@Marvel_ @tsjc68 

Maybe. But we can't actually quantify just how much of a freak he is because he hurt himself at the combine and didn't recover in time for his Pro Day. So, it's possible that the answer is no. At least not with the same level of ceiling. 

tsjc68
tsjc68

@Marvel_ @tsjc68

Probably.


Will he fall into our laps in R6 again?  Possibly, but I'd rather not be forced to find out, especially if what it costs me to not have to find out is "The rest of Greg Salas's probably decent but unspectacular career".

jsadolph
jsadolph

@juunit @SackDance99 @Marvel_ 

This sounds like a good opportunity to cut Salas on final cut downs and leave Enunwa on the 53 until after game 1 and then cut Enunwa and he might have a better chance of slipping through wavers.  Then we can sign Salas and all will be good in the world.

Or Enunwa can be placed on IR with a Hamstring and everything would solve itself. 

Marvel_
Marvel_

@juunit 


pretty sure his best shot is beating out Evans. Or just carrying another WR

Marvel_
Marvel_

@tsjc68 @SackDance99


dismissing camp production is not fair, the point of camp is to earn a spot. If salas keeps performing he will stick.

tsjc68
tsjc68

@SackDance99 @tsjc68 @juunit @Marvel_

The way on God's Green Earth that Enunwa makes the roster:


A.) He was a draft pick, and teams are loath to cut those

B.) His upside evokes memories of Anquan Boldin

hitchhiker
hitchhiker

@Tooned In

How about:

1-Decker

2-Kerley

3-Nelson

4-Hill OR Ford

5-Saunders (due to draft position/upside)

6-Evans (due to draft position/upside)

7-Ford OR Hill

8-Enunwa (due to draft position/upside)

9-Salas

10-Inanimate carbon rod

11-Inanimate carbon rod

12-Inanimate carbon rod

13-Inanimate carbon rod

14-Inanimate carbon rod

15-Gates

16-Hakim

17-Campbell

WW85
WW85

@juunit If Ford was a leftover from Tanny or something I could see your point, but Idzik picked Ford as well as Enunwa. 

bklyndude
bklyndude

@tsjc68 @Marvel_ @juunit

I agree he is intriguing, but wouldn't somebody have drafted before the sixth round it they were really interested in him.  I think teams know these late round guys have talent but need time to work on their games and that includes staying healthy.

Which makes keeping Campbell on last years roster very curious although that is less likely to happen this year.

Marvel_
Marvel_

@tsjc68 


decent is nothing to sneeze at in a 16 game season.

juunit
juunit

@jsadolph @juunit @SackDance99 @Marvel_ 

I think he'd have to re-injure himself. Now that he's gotten healthy, I'm sure if we put him on IR there would be some suspicion. At the very least, we'd have to pretend he aggravated the hamstring again, have him miss the last day or two of camp or something. 

juunit
juunit

@Marvel_ @juunit 

I'd think it's gonna have to be carrying an extra WR. Evans would have to totally tank for us to cut him in favor of a later draft pick. The team already knows it thinks more highly of Evans than Enunwa, which is why Evans was a 4th and Enunwa was a 6th. I personally disagree and would've swapped their positions, but I'm not the guy making the decisions, so my opinion is worthless. 

tsjc68
tsjc68

@Marvel_ @juunit

And if Greg Salas's best shot at a roster spot is "beating out Shaq Evans" then Greg Salas is probably already cut and there's nothing he can do about it.


Which I'm fine with, btw.  Salas is solid but unspectacular.  We have numerous other solid but spectacular (and solid AND spectacular) guys above him on the roster, we can cut him and use his spot on a project like Shaq Evans or Quincy Enunwa (or both) and we'll be fine.


Think big picture.  Salas isn't a NEED.  Evans/Enunwa are bigger needs for this team going forward.

tsjc68
tsjc68

@Marvel_ @tsjc68 @SackDance99

If Salas keeps performing he would earn a spot... if we didn't already have eight or nine other guys potentially better than him in one way or another.


Remember, Clyde Gates is also having yet another solid camp.

Marvel_
Marvel_

@tsjc68 

Gates may be a good human...but hes a bad pass catcher..

juunit
juunit

@WW85 @juunit 

Yeah, I'm not suggesting that Idzik favors Enunwa over Ford. 

tsjc68
tsjc68

@Marvel_ @tsjc68 @juunit

I would be surprised if Enunwa takes a roster spot away from Jacoby Ford, yes.


I would not at all be surprised if he takes a roster spot away from Greg Salas.  Greg Salas is a poor man's David Nelson.  We don't need TWO David Nelsons; one is plenty.

tsjc68
tsjc68

@Marvel_ @tsjc68

Neither is "6'2" 225 and ran a 4.45 40 time and caught 1300 yards worth of balls from Taylor Martinez and Ryan Kellogg's horrible, awful passing offense".

SackDance99
SackDance99

@tsjc68 @Marvel_ @juunit Enunwa will be placed on the PS or the Jets will try to stash him somehow.  Salas is just out performing Shaq in everything that Shaq is supposed to be better at.  IMO, he has to pick up the pace at camp, which is entirely possible.  So far, Shaq has just been another guy.


Enunwa is a physical specimen, but very raw.  An absolute waste of a roster spot on a team where 4 of the "locks" have battled injuries over the past couple of seasons.

Marvel_
Marvel_

@tsjc68


you are a trickster, stop lumping Enunwa in with an additional player. jk


But I like Evans and want him on the roster. But I would have no problem selecting Salas over Enunwa if he keeps performimg.


Preseason will help sort things out.

Marvel_
Marvel_

@tsjc68 

potentially better ?


he kicking but in live time. what else is he supposed to do ?

tsjc68
tsjc68

@SackDance99 @tsjc68 @juunit @Marvel_

And Miles Austin was undrafted.


The fact that Enunwa was just a sixth rounder doesn't mean teams around the league wouldn't covet him or that the team wouldn't be reluctant to expose him to waivers.


If "He was a 6th rounder" mattered, then we'd all be talking about cutting and stashing Trevor Reilly on the PS, but nobody is talking about that because we all know in our guts that someone would claim him quickly.

tsjc68
tsjc68

@Marvel_ @tsjc68

And I think he'll be cut.


I also think he's a better NFL wideout than Saalim Hakim and Michael Campbell.  I fail to see how that is a controversial statement.  He's better at getting open and catching a football than those two guys are.

bklyndude
bklyndude

@SackDance99 @tsjc68 @Marvel_ @juunit Stephen Hill is the physical specimen with potential, Shaq Evans more potential.  There are only so many guys with potential that can make the 53.  Enunwa needs a good camp to prove to the coaches he is close to contributing. I think he probably needs a season or two to develop all of those physical qualities that he has. 

tsjc68
tsjc68

@Marvel_ @tsjc68

But I would have no problem selecting Salas over Enunwa if he keeps performimg.


That would be shortsighted long term roster management.


The Pats would have been wiser hanging on to Zach Sudfeld and his higher potential instead of keeping Matthew Mulligan's decent blocking production around, but they chose "marginal present competency" over "upside and long-term solutions".

tsjc68
tsjc68

@Marvel_ @tsjc68

Yes, Marvel, "potentially better" is enough to win a roster spot over a guy whom you're not currently better than.


AJ Edds is currently better than Jeremiah George, but George will beat him out for a roster spot because he's "potentially better".


Potential matters.  A lot.  And both Enunwa AND Jacoby Ford have more of it than Greg Salas.

bklyndude
bklyndude

@tsjc68 @SackDance99 @juunit @Marvel_ But if he can't stay healthy during TC that will lessen his chances for making the team or impressing other teams.

Trevor Reilly has been making plays and impressing.  He is the one late pick who I see making the 53 man roster of the last six drafted. And Boyd had better started throwing the ball to the WR's instead of the defense if he wants to make the practice squad.

WW85
WW85

@tsjc68 I just dont think he has any advantage over Ford who Idzik signed as well. He's just seeing who will stick.

bklyndude
bklyndude

@tsjc68 @Marvel_

And the Jets would have been better off with Danny Woodhead than Joe McKnight.

These will be tough calls after the pre-season ends.  If Enunwa can flash some of that potential during TC he might make the team.  I agree Evans will most likely make it barring something crazy. 

tsjc68
tsjc68

@WW85 @tsjc68

None of my defense of Quincy Enunwa making the roster is me saying "I think Enunwa will beat out Ford for a roster spot".


Just that I think that he'll beat out Greg Salas for a roster spot.


Greg Salas is an intriguing WR with solid play and a smattering of upside.


Both Jacoby Ford and Quincy Enunwa are just more intriguing than Greg Salas is, though, and Salas would need to start demonstrating an amount of athletic explosiveness that they possess (and he lacks) to leapfrog them in the esteem of the braintrust.


No, a good solid camp in Cortland probably isn't enough to do that.

tsjc68
tsjc68

@Marvel_ @tsjc68

Enunwa has shown you what ?


He's shown me that he's faster and taller than Greg Salas with bigger hands and a bigger catch radius.


At this point, that's all he needs to show me.

WW85
WW85

@tsjc68 Is Ford making your roster? I thought you were dissing my Ford! He's no Edsel

tsjc68
tsjc68

@WW85

 Is Ford making your roster?


Probably, but it all depends on how many WRs we carry.


Ford's much more secure than Salas is, though, that's all that Juunit (and I) are saying here.


Salas's solid camp kept him in the discussion, but it won't be enough.  The numbers just aren't with him.  No matter which way you slice it, he's either the 8th or 9th best WR under contract.