Buzz: Jets open to the idea of Vick winning starting job

Ashley Fox, who works for ESPN.com and was a former beat writer in Philadelphia, writes that the Jets organization is open to the idea of Michael Vick winning the starting job for Week One.

So while the best option long term for New York is to allow Smith to continue to develop by gaining experience on game days, there is an understanding inside the Jets practice facility, a source said, that Vick might very well win the job. He might be the guy come Week 1. With his skills and talent, Vick might make it all but impossible for the Jets to name anyone but him the starter.

Brian Bassett, TheJetsBlog.com

More than anything, this confirms what we already knew. Is it such a bad thing that the Jets might have a hard time determining who to play at the quarterback spot? It’s a sign that they are improving talent over Brady Quinn and David Garrard.

In a perfect world, Geno Smith comes into camp and demonstrates that he’s as good or better at running the Jets offense than the veteran who has worked for many seasons in this offense back in Philly.

In a less than perfect world, the Jets start whoever they feel least concerned about and have the second player ready to jump in should the situation become untenable. The Jets are going to want to give the starting job to Geno Smith, but are realistic enough to keep an open mind in not saying no to an accomplished veteran.





169 comments
David Aron
David Aron

the only drawback i can see from not naming a starter from the beginning of camp is the reps that the final QB starter will lose to the final QB backup while competing. this will put the QB starter behind on his timing routes with his receivers, a staple of the WCO.

gt73
gt73

What ever gets the job done, man. What ever gets the job done. I trust Idzik and Rex know what they are doing.

namvetjet
namvetjet

Much ado about nothing. Just let things play out. If Geno is our franchise's QB he will show it. If not, we will need to move on to another draft selection next year. Vick will be the stop gap--hopefully he will stay healthy. This is year 1 of our rebuilding program---IMHO we are looking at 2 more years of getting all the pieces together. During that time we will be a competitive team.

Joe Willie
Joe Willie

anybody can make a living writing fairy tales today. Here's a news flash...there won't be any real NFL news until draft day....otherwise it's all BS.  

Wilkershakes
Wilkershakes

So a local beat writer from Philly had a source saying that Vick might win the job.  Hmmm...who's the source?  Of course, it's Vick's camp!  This is really no news.  

machoking
machoking

OF COURSE THEY AREEE..... Why wouldn't you let Vick start if he is better then Geno?  Geno was brought in last year because he wasn't Sanchez, simple.  He didn't do particularly well, we didn't think he was anything special until he was left there in round 2.  However, Vick will most likely get injured and Geno will start some really important games..So, both sides of the coin win.  Neither of these guys are our QB of the future.

Lloyd Jay Reife
Lloyd Jay Reife

Is it the Jets wait for injury to happen to Vick, or next year at this time we'll be in need of a quarterback due to the lack of development by Geno?


Even with the Jets 2013 offense, when Geno was in the Red Zone, he made a rushing TD possible.   

The Jets are known for publicly making facts known at the  expense of present players' morale..

See:

Mark Sanchez

Tim Tebow

McKnight

etc.

Juan Montalvo
Juan Montalvo

When Geno was drafted the idea was that Sanchez would start,and Geno would sit and learn that first year,but that didn't happen. Geno was not ready. Especially with all the Media looking for the kid to fail. This kid can run,throw,and he showed guts. The last 4 games showed us a little of what he can become if given what he needs to win. I think it was too much too fast, and he lost his confidence,and focus. Like last year,the Jets will surprise many people,and if Geno can pass his test,and beat out Vick, then I think we'll see some good things from Geno.       

Freddough Jean
Freddough Jean

J3Tsfan29 and a57se please dont post on this topic anymore. Do you guys realize vick did beat out foles and that was last season right. Not 2010. Shyt you guys are dumb. Haha

Freddough Jean
Freddough Jean

Most of ya are just typing bullcrap. Stop playing Madden. Vick Starting is a plus for the Jets. Study the game not mouth.

j3tsfan29
j3tsfan29

A little perspective:

In the last 4 yrs mike Vick has started 42 games. He's thrown for 56 tds and 33 ints., while rushing for another 13 tds and fumbling 14 times. So in 4 yrs, or 42 games, mike Vick has scored 69 tds to 47 turonvers.

Take away 2010, different and scarier story. In case your wondering since 2011 Vick has started 30 games 35 tds, 27 ints with 4 rushing tds and 11 fumbles for a total of 3 yrs or 30 games 39 tds, 38 turnovers.

The most starts in one season in last 4 seasons, 13!

Yikes, this is an experienced vet QB with knowledge of the system. If geno can't beat him out were in trouble!!

kniff
kniff

Where I'm at now that I've had some time to digest the developments of this off season so far is, lets see what happens QB wise in our draft... do we draft a prototype young mid rounder? Or do we not?

If we do, four QBs go to compete at camp, and Simms either makes the grade, or he doesn't. The draft pick might beat out someone, or not. 

The point is Vick is just a stop gap, not our future. Geno is either a stud, or a back up. and Simms is going to have to shine (I hope he does btw) or he might be targeted for a trade, and the new kid (if he's there, maybe Mettenberger for example) might shake things up considerably, and certainly alter the dialogue and short term perspective of the team.

Just for the record, as much as I like the historic football skills of Mike Vick, I still would have preferred to use that money to bolster our O line, to protect and add some increment of time to the play, and helping any Jet starting QB succeed... It begins and ends with the O line, especially with a young QB. But I strongly feel we have to keep looking for a franchise QB til we strike gold. 

Hoz
Hoz

The Jets off season program start tomorrow I hope all the new guys attend, that's the way you start the season off right.

dabronx
dabronx

Dream scenario - Geno beats out Vick for starting QB. If Geno wants the job he better bring it! I believe this to be part of Izdick strategy/intent when signing Vick - challenge Geno and see if he has the gonads to cut it in this league. If Geno doesn't win the starting QB role then we have an above average QB who is familiar with the system and who will (likely) not be able to start all 16 games - Geno comes into play this year no matter what (at least that's the way I see it)

SBIIIMVP
SBIIIMVP

Short term Vick is probably the answer, but it's about sustainability. Geno made some good strides during the last 4 games of the season. That is positive momentum that can perhaps catapult him this upcoming season. Let's learn from the mistakes of the past and develop this young quarterback. Provide him with NFL talent around him and then let's see how he he develops. Were just a few players away on both sides of the ball from being legitimate contenders.

blackwood1
blackwood1

Last yr when I said dont take any QB in this draft & build the team up because next yr was the draft for a QB I was told "we took Geno in the 2nd rd if he dont pan out its no big deal" Now he is the franchise? I said taking Geno will prevent us from taking a better QB should one land to us next yr & I was told "Nah if a QB is there Geno wont stop us from picking him' now here we are about to hit the draft with a back up thats better then the prospect & now this draft if a QB is there for us the team is damned if they do & damned if they dont.


Nothing against Geno but I saw this coming & it sucks because I wanted Keenan Allen with the pick we used on Gino. We could have Decker, Allen & Kerley at WR Vick at QB & in position to pick a better QB prospect.


Oh well lets see how it plays out I guess, if Vick wins out he should play period no more QB coddling we did that with Asschez.

idothis2
idothis2

i wouldnt mind Vick starting if he outplays Geno in preseason. if the competition is close i would go with Geno. Geno grew towards the end of the season and didnt do anything in the last few games to make me nervous if he started this year.

r4to
r4to

If Vick wins that the starting job from Smith, it's back to the drawing board ALL OVER AGAIN as far as looking for stability at the QB position!! I hope that no one in their right is rooting for this to happen!

Marvel
Marvel

The more I look at the RBs in the draft, the less like them. 


By the time we even consider RB , I like Freeman and DAT (OW )..that's about it.


marcus81
marcus81

if Vick is not much better than Geno competing for the starting QB job, then Geno should start since Geno is presumably the future of the team

Pat d
Pat d

bradysucks

I agree with what you think about the Jets draft. But on this I couldn't disagree more. Yes CJ and Decker will help the QB. Now that the weapons are here the Jets are going to take away snaps from Geno with the number ones. What teams can do in the off season has already been reduced, now the Jets are going to cut that in half for Geno. QB is the hardest position in sports. Geno needs the snaps. And for Sanchez, yes CJ and Decker will help the QB. I said in year 3 that the Jets need to improve the playmakers on offense. You and most here said the QB makes those around him better. Well at least now you seem to agree that the offensive playmakers needed to be improved. Kerley has been the best WR for the last 3 years.

So yes the Jets seem incapable of developing QBs.

Sanchez is history but lets develop Geno. Vick doesn't need the snaps with the number ones. At least not 50/50.

realjetfan
realjetfan

Geno Smith should and will start week 1 of the 2014 NFL regular season.

Pat d
Pat d

The Jets are incapable of developing a QB

bobbyj
bobbyj

Sorry but Vick will start. I've said it before, it's a whole lot easier going from Vick to Geno, then going from Geno to Vick. Rex needs to get this team off to a fast start, he's on a one year deal, & Vick already knows the offense. If they were to start Geno & then have to hook him, Geno will be done. The back up QB is always the most popular player on the team. We all think/know that Vick will get hurt. You start w/Vick, then he either gets hurt, or plays his way out of the postion ( or we win ) then u switch to Geno. It's what the Eagles did & look how it worked out for them

cosmicwy
cosmicwy

@machoking  we didn't think he was special enough with a top 13 pick.  that doesn't mean we didn't think he was 1st round material.

Pat d
Pat d

dabronx

Vick is not an above average QB

marcus81
marcus81

@dabronx Vick starting could mean the Jets might have to look for another franchise QB, I am only for Vick starting if it produces a SB win

jpi22le22
jpi22le22

@blackwood1 NFL analyst say that if Geno was in this draft that he would be the number 1 QB

Craig Ramirez
Craig Ramirez

I more or less felt the same way.  Problem is, they took Geno in early second round (had it been later in the round, I think it would have been easier to cut bait), and he showed just enough that he's put them in a difficult situation.  I think the Jets did the right thing by throwing Geno in the fire last year for all 16 games.  I was hoping we'd have a definitive thumbs up or down by the end of it, but in reality, it was a roller coaster.  


A year later, I find myself hoping that Geno wins the job in the pre-season, and we can hopefully find a diamond in the rough in the mid-to-late rounds.

marcus81
marcus81

@r4to Jets should have signed a serviceable veteran QB instead of a veteran than might be the starter, if Vick starts it might undermine Geno and delay his development and it will be back to the drawing board since Vick is not going to last for too long, Geno, Simms and a serviceable veteran QB would have been the way to go

Eddy Lopez
Eddy Lopez

@r4to  I don't mind if Vick beats Geno, he needs to look at the game from the outside something he didn't have the chance to do last yr. Vick is more experienced then Sanchez and they play similar something that Geno can learn. 


Foles lost to Vick in preseason last year but tell me who is that starting QB in Philly now? I hope Jets can develop Geno.



marcus81
marcus81

@Pat d Jets did the same thing to Chad Pennington, after improving the offense they traded for Favre and released Pennington, not saying Jets are gonna release Geno, but it's unfair to the QB who put up playing with a lesser offense and then be challenged for their job after the team improves the talent around the position

bradysucks
bradysucks

The game needs to slow down for Geno. I'd like to see him succeed. I liked the draft pick in round 2.

I don't want to start Geno unless he outplays Vick in camp. I don't think sitting will hurt his development. Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers sat on the bench early in their careers

marcus81
marcus81

@Pat d Jets are too impatient or they mismanage the QB situation so that it's difficult for a QB to succeed

bradysucks
bradysucks

Not true....

The Jets just haven't drafted the right guy and they need to do a better job of surrounding their young QB's with talent

CJ & Decker will certainly help the QB. Idzik needs to finish the job and draft good offensive talent

Wilkershakes
Wilkershakes

@bobbyj   I'm not saying who will start.  I just find it funny that a 'source' from a Philly writer is considered to have some merit or weight to it.  


I want the job to go to whoever wins it in camp and preseason.  I hope it's Geno.

machoking
machoking

@cosmicwy @machoking Ok... However, picking a 2nd rounder is a much smaller investment which leaves the door open for us to bench Geno if he sucks or move on if a better option presents itself. which is exactly why we would bring in Vick (legit comp) instead of "developing Geno".... we don't care to develop Geno.... and we all know Vick is going to break and so this buys us a year or two of decent QB play while we see what else comes up.


Are you convinced Geno is going to be something special?  I see a guy with good physical ability but missed a lot of open guys last year.  I understand he was a rookie and so maybe he will make me eat my words, but I saw some real sanchez-esch moments that I want no part of.

j3tsfan29
j3tsfan29

What's scarier is that in 2013, he started just 7 games under chip kelly, he had 7 tds to 5 turnovers. Here's to hoping geno beats out Vick!

jpi22le22
jpi22le22

@marcus81 @r4toIf Vick starts it should be fine , that way Geno can observe and learn from a really good QB. It could play out the same way as it did in Philly . Foles started the last few games in 2012 and then Vick became the starter once again in 2013 until an injury. Foles was reinserted as the starter and look how he performed. Geno should be fine and if that delays his development than maybe we would need to look for another Qb because that would mean he cant deal with adversity

ganggrncap
ganggrncap

@marcus81


This got to be the dumbest comment I've eva seen posted......  And I'm guilty of a lot of them!


You beat out Joeyboy....


Hank.....


Private......


Spent.......


I bow down to you!

Pat d
Pat d

Sitting Geno may not hurt. But I don't want to see Vick take away snaps from Geno with the #1s. At least not 50/50. As far as Brady and Rogers they didn't start year one then get benched year two.

In all honesty I don't think Geno is a Brady or Rodgers. But lets give the kid a shot. If he sucks bring in Vick. We know what Vick is capable of.

I agree Geno was a good value pick in round 2.

Pat d
Pat d

bradysucks

I agree with what you think about the Jets draft. But on this I couldn't disagree more. Yes CJ and Decker will help the QB. Now that the weapons are here the Jets are going to take away snaps from Geno with the number ones. What teams can do in the off season has already been reduced, now the Jets are going to cut that in half for Geno. QB is the hardest position in sports. Geno needs the snaps. And for Sanchez, yes CJ and Decker will help the QB. I said in year 3 that the Jets need to improve the playmakers on offense. You and most here said the QB makes those around him better. Well at least now you seem to agree that the offensive playmakers needed to be improved. Kerley has been the best WR for the last 3 years.

So yes the Jets seem incapable of developing QBs.

Sanchez is history but lets develop Geno. Vick doesn't need the snaps with the number ones.

D
D

@bradysucks Pennington was the last QB that we drafted that was an Top 10 NFL qb talent.
Maybe not top 10 up the upper half of great qbs in his era.

Since then we have struck out.


I actually think Geno is going to make a big jump in his sophmore season.  The pressure is 100% on him to grow.  Im excited to see how camp goes as well as our first 4 rounds of the draft.


marcus81
marcus81

@DarrolRayFanClub who said Geno is worse, he was 8-8 with some of the worse receivers in the NFL, Vick might be just a flash in the pan, and he played with better talent in Philly

marcus81
marcus81

@jaygo @marcus81 it was a good thing Trent Richardson got drafted by the Browns early since Tanny wanted to trade up to get him, Jets can be their worst enemy

Juan Montalvo
Juan Montalvo

@bradysucks Well said @bradysuks. We only have 16 games, and the one that gives us the best chance to win is our QB. I think Geno and Vick are similar QB's. Geno,I think, would benefit greatly from sitting and learning from Vick, and the Jets would benefit from having an experienced QB leading them to the playoffs. 

bradysucks
bradysucks

The Jets want Geno to win the job. So do I. It would be great for the franchise and fans if Idzik picked us a franchise QB in Geno Smith.

Despite the desperation and denials the reality is that Geno's rookie stats (especially the turnovers) were terrible. He also wasn't accurate or consistent. Lots of good QB's have had bad rookie years. I understand this so I am not going to write off Geno. Geno is a talented guy.

None of this changes the fact that Vick is a veteran who had an MVP caliber season when healthy playing for Marty Morninweg. If Vick outplays Geno in pre-season and in camp then Vick should start

jpi22le22
jpi22le22

@Eddy Lopez @a57se@bradysucksyour wrong , what about Ken Obrien he was a probowler a few years . He also took them to the game b4  the afc championship  which the coaching lost us the game (Joe Walton) to Bernie Kosar and the Cleveland Browns .Smdh....

maynard
maynard

He was a rookie QB taken in the second round. He would have carried the clipboard if Sanchez hadn't gotten hurt and should this year if Vick has anything left. He should develop while doing so, if he develops enough to overtake Vick this year or next we won, if he doesn't,t we try again in the draft or with a FA next year. It should take 2-3 yrs to develop so don,t panic yet

todd
todd

Sorry for the double post livefryre really sucks on my phone

jma020
jma020

@bradysucks  Another strawman argument.... No one disagrees that he needs to either get better or get replaced.

juunit
juunit

@DrJonathanReefer  

It's pretty much the same. Although they got a little better at mixing up coverages you see when you're on offense. And being able to start as a current player or a legend is so much better than starting off as a rookie at like 60 overall (for Superstar mode.)

Can't wait for the stupid exclusive deal with EA to run out. 

DrJonathanReefer
DrJonathanReefer

@juunit @DrJonathanReefer @Brendan @a57se  


Nice, dude won a championship like every year he played or something like that.


One of the many forgotten old time greats.


How is Madden 25 btw? Just got a PS4 was thinking bout picking up madden, but its always the same old.


bradysucks
bradysucks

Geno completed 55% of his passes in 2013

Geno threw for 12 TD's

Geno turned over the football 21 times

Geno ran for 6 touchdowns

He had a terrible rookie year.....so did Peyton Manning and Troy Aikman

He needs to get better or he is going to be replaced

Simple - Let's not overcomplicate things

DrJonathanReefer
DrJonathanReefer

@juunit @DrJonathanReefer @Brendan @a57se  


forgot about otto graham, ran alot for the 40s and 50. Over 400 rushes to his 2000something passing attempts. only played 10 years and alot less games back then too.

jma020
jma020

@DrJonathanReefer @jma020 @Brendan @a57se  It's mostly just that he contradicted himself.  Which really isn't a big deal.  But for some reason he can't just admit that and get over it...

DrJonathanReefer
DrJonathanReefer

@jma020 @Brendan @a57se  


he is just pissed us "young druggie whippersnappers" know more about football then him. But again, most of us actually played the sport, we don't use a game (bowling) and pretend its a sport to relate to.

jma020
jma020

@Brendan @a57se  

This is classic.

He Calls Geno a Running Back- then says "Runnig 5-6 times a game doesn't make you a running QB".  Gets reminded that Geno averaged 4.5 rushes a game.

 And he just can't bring himself to say "I guess that was a bit of an overstatement".  So he has to just leave.  

We know you're mike francessa 57, stop hiding.   (Only he would hang up on the caller instead of leaving the discussion).

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se Steve Young started 16 games three times. He averaged 67 rushes per season over that time (a shade over 4 attempts). Geno averaged 4.5 rushes per game this season. 


Please tell us more stories about the runningback known as Steve Young, 57. 

DrJonathanReefer
DrJonathanReefer

@a57se @DrJonathanReefer  


He ran a lot, what the hell are you talking about

Young had over 4000 rushing yards in his career and 40+ rushing tds.



staubach had 3 years of over 300 yards rushing and over 2000 for his career and 20+ rushing tds back in the 70s.


Which is what we expect from Geno as he grows.

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se Please give me the list, 57. I don't want to upset you by answering in a way that proves you wrong. 

jma020
jma020

@a57se @Brendan  How long is sustainable?  I think it's safe to say that the 9ers and Seahawks will be good for a while.  And if not it wont be because their QBs are mobile.

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se Please post the list of pre-determined teams that I can use to answer the question you asked, 57. Apparently teams who have won the SB and 24 regular season games in two years aren't allowed. 

jma020
jma020

@a57se @jma020  Yeah I agree with that.  But I'm just still more open to the possibility that he isn't a bum.  I think we do need to find out though.

DrJonathanReefer
DrJonathanReefer

@a57se @DrJonathanReefer  


The Niners? Steve Young? now Kaep.


The Cowboys with Stabuach.


The Eagles went to 1 superbowl and 5 NFC championships.


thats just off the top of my head.


Wasn't Tarkenton dual threat and had some success too.

jma020
jma020

@a57se @DrJonathanReefer  Yeah but the NFL is clearly changing.... Seattle and 49ers are the two best franchises in football.  What do they have?  Strong Defenses and dual threat QBs.

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se Seattle has a dual-threat QB. They seem to be doing fairly well. 

jma020
jma020

@a57se @Brendan  I don't get it... you say  that starting Vick is a "dumb arse short sighted move".  But from your words it sounds like you've pretty much come to the conclusion that Geno sucks.... and based on what you said about Sanchez, it seems that you believe that no matter what talent you put around a QB that "sucks" he is going to suck no matter what.

Do you advocate we draft a rookie to come in and start?  Have you given up hope on Geno?

DrJonathanReefer
DrJonathanReefer

@a57se @Brendan  


You can say that all you like, but you can't diminish a successful scoring drive that lead to 6 points, just because you don't like how the TD was scored.

DrJonathanReefer
DrJonathanReefer

@Brendan @a57se  


who the hell cares how the TD was scored.


It put up 6 points, regardless of if he ran it in, handed it off, or threw a pass, it was a SUCCESSFUL DRIVE that lead to a TD. Which is all that matters.

jma020
jma020

@a57se @Brendan @bradysucks  Come on, you can say Geno sucks all you want.  He's definitely not a RB playing QB.  Pocket presence is actually a strength of his game.

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se No. I don't do "ZOMG" (which I wish was never introduced to you) and completely overstate the point so you're mocking a strawman argument. 


Passing QB's who can score rushing TD's is not "having a RB at QB," don't portray my comment as if it's another way of stating that. 

DrJonathanReefer
DrJonathanReefer

@a57se @Brendan @bradysucks  


touchdowns count for 6 no matter how you score them.


all i know is from the Oakland on, when the team got healthy the O looked pretty solid.

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se Please don't misrepresent my comments to be an asshle, 57. 

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se Oh, we're back to the "he had one of the best QB ratings in December without improving in how he read defenses at all" thing you like to do? 

DrJonathanReefer
DrJonathanReefer

@bradysucks  


well true but if you count rushing tds which he s directly responsible for just like passing.


18 to 21 looks a whole lot better.

jma020
jma020

@bradysucks  @Brendan 

Brendan:  "you're better than speaking in such generalities"....

bradysucks:  "12 TD's. 21 Turnovers"


you sure about that Brendan?

bradysucks
bradysucks

12 TD's. 21 Turnovers is terrible

Brendan
Brendan

@bradysucks  Not all of it, you're better than speaking in such generalities. 

jma020
jma020

@bradysucks  His Rookie year wasn't terrible... there were good games and bad.  You have to account for his surrounding cast as well.  Not fair to expect him to be Luck, RG3 or Wilson just because they were the rookies the year before.  

bradysucks
bradysucks

Geno can prove himself in camp

His rookie year was terrible

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se And you know that for a fact? From your extensive time being around Geno?

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se I don't know what we established, but it certainly wasn't "Sanchez was bad every time he played a game for the Jets." 


He had promise at that point, he played confident (so he was essentially a different player than the one who left the team) and wasn't bad ALWAYS. Having Holmes/Cotch/Braylon/TJ/LT around him with that OL made him adequate. 


They made a sucky QB into one who could win 11 games in the regular season, thus proving jma's point. 

bradysucks
bradysucks

Sanchez sucks

You can't develop a QB who sucks

But the Jets are certainly capable of developing a QB provided they draft a guy with the right mental make up and arm strength.

The Jets can't turn water into wine - the coaches aren't magicians

jma020
jma020

@a57se @jma020  Haha, I can't tell if you're being serious.  

Are you really saying that if Sanchez had 5 all-pros at O-Line, A.J. Green, Fitz, Julio and Forte, you KNOW he would suck?

Any other mysteries of the universe that you can inform me of?  What happens when we die?

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se Haha it's amazing to watch you say something that is literally the complete opposite of what you were saying about that same play at the time. 



So he sucked 100% of the time? Final answer? 

Eddy Lopez
Eddy Lopez

@a57se @bradysucks  Well to bad Sanchez never had those guys so pretty much we will never find out. Don't forget he all had 2 incompetent OC and he never played with Marty.


The Jets have never developed a Qb that has been successful and taken them to the promise land maybe other then Namath.

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se In 2010 he was adequate, and at times played well. That was with a very good team around him, so acting like there's no precedent for a great roster to help cover for a weakness isn't fair. 

jma020
jma020

@a57se @jma020 @bradysucks  yeah ok, we'll never know.  But I just don't think he 
"sucks" with that unrealistic hall of fame supporting cast haha.  Who knows. 

jma020
jma020

@a57se @bradysucks  I dunno, I think he would have been good under those circumstances.  We'll never know.