Daily Links: Keep on running

  • Which Jets player is “feeling the heat” heading into camp? [B/R]
  • Cimini: Teams will adjust to Geno’s running [ESPN New York]
  • Tribute to Bob Mischak, who died on Thursday [Jets Official Site]
  • Prisco: Harrison underrated, Mangold overrated [CBS Sports]
  • Ellis Lankster’s charisma shines through as he runs camp [AL.com]
  • Lankster talks to the media about mini-camp, Jets secondary [The Birmingham News]



45 comments
davem
davem

Off Topic:

Bent, Can you identify a specific moment where the US surpassed England as a greater soccer nation? Or was this just a gradual overtaking with no one pivotal event?

a57se
a57se

Typical Cimidiot writing today!

He asks Vick what his greatest accomplisjment in Football has been.

Vick says probably QB'ing his team to a playoff win in Lambeau since it hadn't been done before by any team.

Then the Cinidiot snarks his way through the next line:

"It was a great win, to be sure, but I don't think anything short of a championship can satisfy a "greatest accomplishment" question for 12 years."

WTF??? YOU asked the question, Dumb Arse!!!

levi
levi

I dont agree that Mangold is over rated. But it got me thinking if you had to pick a guy on the team to call over rated who would it be? David Harris?  I'd say Mike Vick or Pryor but neither have played a snap yet.

boomer
boomer

Cimini gets a 3 week vacation from tweeting and writing sarcastic articles about the team he covers?


I'm in the wrong line of work.

levi
levi

Both Lankster articles are the same.

kniff
kniff

Good Morning! 

Nick Mangold is not over rated in my book... despite last years stats looking slightly less impressive, we all know that he (and Brick) had much slack to pick up on from the struggling rookie at left guard.


In many ways Mangold is the face of the franchise.... (and yes, Brendans avatar) so I will not see him belittled by some hack writer.

Bent
Bent moderator

Interesting that Cimini points out how Patterson is joining the Jets from Miami where he says there was "an obvious disconnect between players and coaches".


So, now he's joining a team where there was a less-than-obvious disconnect between players and coaches.  Is that really better?

Bent
Bent moderator

RIP to Bob Mischak.  He may only have played three seasons for this franchise, but was basically one of their best players during that time.


While researching him yesterday, I discovered that while at Army he returned a kickoff 97 yards for a touchdown.  Not bad for a guard!

Hazard2012
Hazard2012

@davem


The U.S. hasn't surpassed England as a great 'football' nation.  (The mere fact we can't call the sport by its real name is itself telling.)    Nor should we interpret the fact that England's recent World Cup teams have often been poorly selected, poorly coached and arrive exhausted due to their endless club schedules disguise just how much better the caliber of play is in the UK than in the U.S. 


The U.S. clearly has a chance to become one of the true football superpowers, something the rest of the futbol world had long recognized and feared, but people have been saying that since the Seventies.   We're closing the gap, and maybe a deep run in this World Cup can place more focus...and resources...on youngsters playing 'football' and developing places in-country where they can continue to learn and hone their skills at the top level.   As it is, only a handful of U.S. players are considered good enough to make the rosters of top leagues in Europe.   


When American-born players don't have to go abroad to play the game at its top level then we can boast of having become a 'futbol' nation, but we're a generation away from that, at least,  

Bent
Bent moderator

@davem England has been going downhill for years.  They are incapable of developing talent for two main reasons.  Number one is that all the top teams in the premiership keep bringing in cheap foreign talent and burying their homegrown players.  The other is that young kids learning how to play soccer are encouraged to win games rather than actually learn the game.  That leads to just booting the ball downfield and chasing after it, which is a viable plan for an under-11's team but doesn't prepare those involved for playing against quality opposition.


In addition, they're also incapable of developing a team because EVERY time they change managers they overreact to the failings of the previous manager, flip-flopping naively between rah-rah shouty motivational guys and boring X's and O's guys that can't motivate.  Of course that means the new manager finds the existing squad are all poor fits for how he wants to play, so they're already behind the 8-ball before they begin.  Then these coaches experiment far too much, never get a settled first 11 and end up with a team that has zero chemistry.


Ironically, there's still probably only a handful of individuals in the USMNT that would get into the England squad if they had been English, but the US has an established team and a style of play that they groom players to fit into.  


The biggest shift has definitely been on our side of the ledger.  Horrendous mismanagement over the last 15 years.  They never should have got rid of Glenn Hoddle, the manager at the '98 World Cup and goodness knows why they've never given Harry Redknapp a shot.  

harold
harold

@davem 


I would say the US is certainly not a greater soccer nation.  We are just better than England right now.  But as a soccer country and as for future prospects in the sport you would be hard pressed to find many who think the US has a better long term outlook. 


Now this could change if soccer continues to surge here, but as of now, I think that would be accurate.

Pablo Bruno
Pablo Bruno

@a57se lol, my guess is that no matter what Vick have said, Cimini had that to say, If Vick would have said something about him winning in a dog fight then Cimini would have been at a lost for words, but common do you expect better? lol

a57se
a57se

Obviously sub Vick for Geno there...

jdb4
jdb4

@a57se 

That is absurd. 

Q: "what is your greatest personal accomplishment" 

A - "I'm the first person in my family to graduate college"


Q - "Well you didn't make valedictorian did you?"


http://youtu.be/KYHDp5im-NU?t=5m5s

levi
levi

@a57se haha Yeah wth was that all about?

Bent
Bent moderator

@levi To be overrated, you need to be rated highly.  That doesn't apply to many Jets players, even the good ones.


I guess Cromartie would have been a good choice last year because he was a Pro Bowler following a bad season.  However, if everyone knew he had a bad season, does that really make him overrated?  And couldn't it mean that some people might be underestimating him now?

Bent
Bent moderator

@levi They're not, but I screwed up the links.  Will fix.

Bent
Bent moderator

@kniff I agree with you kniff.  Here's what I posted on that topic when it was being discussed last night:


"Mangold can still play.  His PFF grades over the last 5 weeks were +11.4.  The best grade for the whole season +18.9.  If we attribute that to him needing to help out Winters less and less and assume that he can return to that kind of role for the entirety of 2014, there's every chance he'll grade out as one of the best centers in the league again.  Even as it was he was 3rd best in pass protection.


My own take is that he does so much more than your average center, he's still one of the best in the league.  Some guys in zone blocking schemes or in systems like the Saints have much easier jobs than he does, so it's not surprising they grade out better.  Let's hope he can ball out this year without having to push a stroller around everywhere he goes.


Overrated lists are dumb anyway, because the players on the list nearly always end up being guys that everyone says is terrible which makes no sense.  (Sanchez used to end up on these lists a lot).  I at least give Prisco credit for identifying a guy people actually respect...and let's face it, there aren't many other Jets who meet that criteria."


Also 57 made a good point about how badly everything went to pieces (and presumably still would) when he got injured.  That alone underlines his value.

r_in_ct
r_in_ct

@Bent Cimini reminds me so much of Max Mercy from "The Natural." Paraphrasing from memory here: "It doesn't matter if you're a hero or a goat tomorrow, all I know is that you're going to make me a helluva a story." And "I'm here to protect the integrity of the game."


Cimini comes across as thinking he's better and smarter than all the players and coaches AND fans, and always seems to suggest that he has the moral and intellectual high ground on all of them. His writing reeks of smug arrogance, which rubs everyone the wrong way. But I really think that a lot of that is an act, part of the "New York beat" cynicism, if you will. Like, "They won't respect me here if I ever show that I am nice." 


Actually, I think it started as an act and maybe he believes it now. Not too sure.


Either way, the truth is he's capable of writing a lot better, especially when he leaves the snarkiness aside—the Scott Mersereau piece he did was terrific on a lot of levels.


As much as I despise his constant negative editorializing, I've come to think about him as the Iron Sheik—the heel who plays up the bad to attract heat (and page views). I try to pick out the good bits to enjoy and laugh at the rest because it's all part of the show.

marc55
marc55

Fantastic title by Cimini too.

a57se
a57se

@Hazard2012 @davem 

What a dumb arse sentiment you first sentence is...(The part in the brackets!)

Brendan
Brendan

@Hazard2012 Yeah, Klinsy, I'll take Gedion Zelalem. No problem. Get it done. 

davem
davem

I meant this more as a "let's pour salt on the wound" comment than a serious question... But your answer was quite thorough

Brendan
Brendan

@Bent Oddly enough, I expected England to look worse. Sterling and Sturridge are really exciting young players, do you think they might bring about a rebound for the English squad? 

a57se
a57se

@Bent @levi 

If we are going by the PFF color chart, most of the Jets are under rated but there were a couple that were over...

levi
levi

@Bent  Yeah I had a hard time coming up with anyone. How about under rated though? I dont agree with Harrison either because most of us know what a handful he is. Maybe Lankster?

boomer
boomer

@r_in_ct I like your comment and I agree with your analysis. But I can't say that enjoy the show.


I hate the constant drumbeat of negativity that surrounds this team, much of which is caused by cynical writers looking for hits. I'm not looking for Pollyanna, softball commentary but guys like Cimini almost always lead from the negative and that style as much as anything else has caused the pervasive belief that the Jets are some clown car of a team and worse than they truly are.


As others have noted in this thread, the Jets players (and collectively the team) is often underrated. I attribute a good deal of this to the coverage they receive from their beat writers who never miss an opportunity to take a shot at any player in green and white and this gives the people around the league the opening to hack on the Jets.


You can see this with the lack of respect a guy like Mo gets and in instances like last offseason when the Jets were widely predicted to be one of if not the worst teams in the league.  


The Giants play in the same market but they never get this kind of treatment. It's time for the Jets to start getting more respect from their own beat writers.

Bent
Bent moderator

@r_in_ct It's almost impossible to differentiate between Cimini and Shiekie's twitter feeds sometimes.

Bent
Bent moderator

@marc55 It may have been fantastic, but someone didn't like it because it's since been edited from "Geno's case of the runs" to "Geno the scrambler".

Bent
Bent moderator

@Disgruntled Jets Fan @Bent Well, he wasn't a guard at the time.  He played "offensive end" which I believe was more of a blocking TE role with the forward pass being less popular in those days.  In addition, he played defensive end too.  He was a tackle with the Giants before joining the Jets as a guard.   I even read that Army asked him to play QB at one point.


Information out there is spotty, not surprisingly since we're going back over 60 years, but it seems like he was a fascinating story.

Hazard2012
Hazard2012

@Brendan @Hazard2012


Think Klinsy has brought a more 'European' mindset and structure to this U.S. squad, and we see it paying dividends.  


Getting past Belgium would be a big step forward but...at risk of getting ahead of ourselves...beating a favorite and world-futbol power like Argentina, with Messi, would be a fantastic leap forward for this team and for futbol in the U.S. in general.       

Bent
Bent moderator

@davem My alternative answer would have been "ouch".

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se @Bent @levi


That's just it.  Whoever you pick will be underrated by some, overrated by some and correctly rated by others.

Bent
Bent moderator

@levi @Bent Same issue with underrated I guess.  If you're looking at Pro Bowl snubs then it's Wilkerson.  However, everyone KNOWS he's a Pro Bowl snub so maybe he isn't underrated at all because everyone already thinks he's awesome.


If I had to go with anyone as a choice for underrated it would probably be Kenrick Ellis.

Bent
Bent moderator

@Hazard2012 @Brendan If the US beat Argentina, they will probably call it the Miracle on Grass.

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se @levi Look at Tebow.  He's been included in "overrated" lists loads of times, but almost everyone thinks he's terrible* - what those lists really meant was "over-exposed".


That probably applies to Sanchez to some extent too and will likely also apply to Manziel.


*Insert comment about him being worse than terrible and therefore actually overrated anyway here

a57se
a57se

@Bent @a57se @levi 

There are already articles about Manziels' team mates getting tired of being asked about him!

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se @Bent @levi I saw T-Train West (Brendan's guy in the draft!) saying it was a bit annoying although he did it in a respectful way where he didn't put the blame on Manziel's shoulders.  Had that happened with the Jets beat rather than in Cleveland I think they would have made a much bigger deal of that and framed it as a franchise in disarray.