Daily Links: Respect

  • Sheldon Richardson earns CBSSports.com’s 2014 DROTY [CBS]
  • Leigh Steinberg on Richard Sherman, concussions and more [SNY.tv]
  • Rex Ryan excited for Jets after year of transition [NY Post]
  • Five things the Jets need to do to reach next year’s Super Bowl [NJ]
  • Rex Ryan: Better the Broncos on our practice field than the Patriots [NY Post]
  • Kate Upton uses Giants and Jets players as props [USA Today]
  • Richard Sherman sorry for ‘attack’ on Crabtree [ESPN]
  • Brady says Broncos were ‘pretty flawless’ [ESPN Boston]
188 comments
a57se
a57se

Renee Fleming is gonna sing the National Anthem at the SB.......how many TJB'ers know who she is?

Bent
Bent moderator

@jake100 I guess you could say the same thing about Tate.  Or, if the Niners won, Boldin.  Damn those Niners for not winning.

Brendan
Brendan

@jake100 HOME COURT ADVANTAGE, BABY!


If they sign him to an elite WR contract I'll weep. 

Bent
Bent moderator

@jake100 Of course, this comment from me doesn't consider that those guys would be at the Giants facility...

a57se
a57se

@Brendan@a57se 

Hahaha.....smart players would do X. Just so happens X is what you believe to be true!

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se We'll never know, but smart players would look at them that way. The way the team reacted to the "Rex is coming back" announcement is basically a recruitment video. 

a57se
a57se

@Brendan@a57se 

How many Non-Jets players in the NFL look at the Jets as an up and coming team?

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se @Brendan Absolutely none.  It was jarring reading the "2013 opponents announced" articles for our opponents.  EVERYONE penciled us in as an easy win.

Brendan
Brendan

@Bent Agreed, but a 2-year deal minimizes the pain. He just played at a high level this year, he has good hands, will go over the middle and make tough catches, plus he's a solid blocker. 


I also wonder if him being an absolute beast (in terms of body type) and he's never been a speed receiver will lead to his "falling off" not being so drastic. He's always been about route running, toughness, strength...maybe he's a safer bet than Mason? 


I think it's most likely that he ends up with another team, but I'd be happy if the Jets landed him for a reasonable price. 

Bent
Bent moderator

@Brendan @a57se Devil's advocate for getting Boldin.


Average catches per season over the last three years: 69

Average catches per season over the last three years for Derrick Mason when we got him: 72


Or go back four years and the discrepancy is even bigger (79-68).


When receivers fall off, they do so fast.  


Boldin was fantastic this year, but the Jets have had terrible success with signing free agent wide receivers.   

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se I know what you're saying, but an 8-8 team on the rise is a fairly attractive squad, though. And not every good team has cap space for him or a need at WR. 

a57se
a57se

@Brendan@Bent@Bytor

I'd give it to Boldin as well but so would a whole bunch of NFL teams with better QB situations. Considering the fact that Boldin is already 33, I can't see him going to a team without a good, established QB and a semi-legit shot at the SB unless all those teams just aren't interested.

Brendan
Brendan

@Bytor I've been a huge fan of Boldin since his days at FSU. The guy is one of the toughest dudes in the NFL, he would teach the Jets' young receivers A LOT. 

Bytor
Bytor

@Brendan @Bent @Bytor @jake100 @brendan It makes even more sense if/when Holmes hits the streets. I'd rather go with rookie/Kerley/Boldin than rookie/Kerley/Hill or rookie/Kerley/Tate etc.

Bent
Bent moderator

@Bytor @Bent @jake100 @brendan He's less than a year older than Welker, who just got 2 years and 12m last year, so I'd be looking at something within spitting distance of that.

Bytor
Bytor

@Bent @jake100 @brendan I have a funzies bet with 57 that we'll sign Boldin. Probably wishful thinking on my part but I see an awesome fit for us and Geno. How much do you think he'll command in the open market? 

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se @Bent I thought late rounders don't count.  :o)

a57se
a57se

@Bent@a57se 

There were other players who could have helped us now at positions of need that we could have picked.......but that would bring some solace to this draft.

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se @Bent Hopefully Campbell will be another one we can look back on as a good pick in the future.

a57se
a57se

@Bent@a57se 

There is nothing wrong with drafting projects if you give them the time to grow and mature. Sione Po'uha was a project.

When you are losing and have many holes on your roster, it isn't a good idea to draft projects.......that was our mistake.

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se Well, whatever, just don't make the same mistake again with the next guy.

a57se
a57se

@Bent@a57se 

I don't count McKnight or White......7th rounders don't come with expectations.

Hill was always a project but wasn't treated as such and that is as much the Jets fault as anyones.


Forcing him onto the field as a starter in 2012 was wrong. he wasn't physically ready for the NFL.

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se Well, they just drafted two good players, while we drafted Hill, White, McKnight and only hit on Kerley.


Morale of the story is that if they draft a WR high, they better get a good one.

a57se
a57se

@Bent@a57se 

They were also dealing with Brandon Marshall the first two years of Lloyds' being a bronco.


Unfortunately, we almost always seem to be playing catch-up in the personnel dept.

The Broncos got ahead of the curve with their WR's.......

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se @Bent Exactly, you'd be stuck with the overpaid veteran and having to re-sign the guy whose contract was up and perhaps overpaying him so as not to lose out on chemistry.

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se @Bent Well, they drafted well.  What if the Thomas and Decker picks had not panned out?

a57se
a57se

@Bent@a57se 

Well they had drafted at the WR position and allowed the young guys to learn instead of forcing them into the line-up like we did with Hill. Then when they were ready, they got rid of the more expensive/experienced guys......sounds like a good model to me.

a57se
a57se

@Bent@a57se 

Was this still under Josh Mc "I wanna be another Bleicheat" Daniels?

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se @Bent No, but if you recall, they reshaped their receiving corps around that time, trading Brandon Lloyd away during the season and using the likes of Royal and Decker full time while they increased the playing time for Thomas.


When Royal's contract was up, they opted to stick with Decker, who they'd groomed as a replacement.

djf1
djf1

@a57se I think a more reasonable response would be, you're right, looks like OTC is a more accurate source.

a57se
a57se

@Bent

Decker was a free agent the same time as Royal?

jake100
jake100

@Bent @jake100 @a57se @brendan 

Yeah, this is tricky one, because Peyton is an elite qb and has many other weapons to free up Decker. Decker could be just average on another team. I am sure there are many opinions this, but good convo!

Bent
Bent moderator

@jake100 @Bent @a57se @brendan Well, Moore has Brees and Royal has Rivers (not too much of a drop-off).


I'd say he's definitely a notch above those guys.  Denver basically kept him over Royal for one thing.

harold
harold

@Bent

As you said he will get between 8-12 million.  Depending on the market.  But thinking we will get him for 5-7 million which I would pay is unrealistic.

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se @Bent Either that or Spotrac stumbled upon a stunning exclusive

Bent
Bent moderator

@jake100 @Bent @a57se @brendan 


4-5m in terms of APY makes his veteran peer group Eddie Royal, Nate Washington, Lance Moore.  He's a notch above that group IMO.

a57se
a57se

@Bent@a57se 

ZOMG!!! 

YOU GOT ME!

ALL HAIL BENT!


I should try harder to be your buddy!

a57se
a57se

@Bent@a57se 

Then they are the same if Sprttrac gets their data from OTC.....

Sportrac would be derivative but the data is the same.

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se No, OTC is better.  Spotrac gets their data from OTC.

Bent
Bent moderator

@jake100 @Bent @brendan Yes, like I said that's 2013 salary, but if you're paying a guy 6-7m in salary, you probably also paid him a bonus upfront that has to be factored in.


Maybe Decker does get a five year deal with an annual salary of $5m ... but he'd also get a 10m signing bonus and therefore the average per year would actually be 7m.


That's for illustrative purposes.  I think he'll get more than 7m a year.

a57se
a57se

@jake100@Bent@brendan 

Joey, you had the filter on Base Salary for that chart.

They also get bonuses that add on to that total.....you need to factor that in as well when you talk about compensation.

Try AVERAGE SALARIES and you will see a huge increase.

jake100
jake100

@Bent @jake100 @brendan  


Here is some data, which forms my 4-5m opinion. It does depend on other factors like how desperate a team is for him, and also the argument that he needs Peyton to be successful. I think that is a middle ground statement as it is true to a certain degree, but he is a talent and has the size and ability.  Anyway, something to chew on.   http://www.spotrac.com/rankings/nfl/wide-receiver/

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se @Bent @jake100 @brendan  There aren't that many to look at but Deion Branch is the obvious one.  The rest - Moss for example - were already over the hill so you could attribute any down turn to that.


That's the reservation everyone should have with Decker.  While some will play the "he produced with Tebow" card, I don't buy that because that was a run heavy offense so when they did throw it was to exploit single coverage or someone biting on playaction.


Clearly Woodhead has exceeded expectations with the Chargers.

a57se
a57se

@Bent@jake100@brendan 

and how have the NE skill position players fared when they went to teams with NON-HOF caliber QB's?

Bent
Bent moderator

@jake100 @brendan In a market where Mike Wallace got $10m and was outproduced by Decker, I think you are dreaming if you expect him to earn that kind of money.


By the way Jackson gets $11m a year or $10m a year (depending whether you mean Vincent or DeSean)


White gets 8.5m a year.


Williams and Rice both get $8m a year


Boldin got over 8m a year


You're just looking at salary, not factoring in bonuses.


I agree that Peyton drives his price up, but the same is true of NE skill position players and they still get paid pretty well.



Brendan
Brendan

@jake100 That's not it at all, I promise. I was just curious what you think the cutoff for him should be. 


I'd be willing to part with $7ish million a year, fwiw. 

a57se
a57se

@jake100@brendan 

Decker would not demand a lot of attention from defenses......he is excelling against no. 2 CB's with a first ballot HOF QB who has 5 weapons the defense has to cover every play.

jake100
jake100

@brendan  Can you imagine him freeing up Kerley!  Decker would command a lot of attention from defenses, but the price cant be too crazy even though the Jets really need a wr like him.

jake100
jake100

@brendan  We have to factor in Peyton drives his price up. He will not be as productive with an average or even just a good QB, but he will still be solid in my opinion and a #1 on the weaker offenses. It also depends on that.... how bad a team needs him. A team like the Jets could really benefit.

jake100
jake100

@brendan @jake100 

It is obvious you want me to quote a price, so you can knock the crap out of me, lol OK fire away, I say between 4-5M  range.

Brendan
Brendan

@jake100 Well, who do you feel are his peers? Maybe if we establish that, we can gauge a fair market value for him. (this is what I do at work, btw, drag the horse to water by asking questions)

Brendan
Brendan

@jake100 Just curious, what's your cutoff for "elite" money. Would a $7-$8 million average be acceptable?

jake100
jake100

@a57se @jake100 @Brendan 

It would definitely be a nice upgrade for the Jets but not for elite money. He is big and athletic and as the article points out, started his rise with Tebow throwing him the ball. Of course Manning will make anyone  better, but Decker has shown he is a very solid wr with talent.