Daily Links: Say Watt?

  • Evan Silva ranks Jets roster as 7th worst in the NFL [Rotoworld]
  • Jets additions loaded with risk and reward [USA Today]
  • AFC East draft needs [PFF]
  • Close friend and former teammate Keith Bulluck on CJ move [Star Ledger]
  • Fascinating mock contract negotiation for JJ Watt [NFP]



145 comments
a57se
a57se

A source tells the Palm Beach Post that Dolphins SLB Koa Misi thinks moving to middle linebacker would be "too much" for him to handle.

The Dolphins want to move Misi to the middle, MLB Dannell Ellerbe to the weak side, and WLB Philip Wheeler to the strong side. Misi was easily the best player of the trio last season and is nails against the run. Misi told the coaching staff he was "concerned about the added responsibilities and mental aspect of playing inside." Not really a good look. Ellerbe remains penciled in at MIKE, though the linebacker corps could get shaken up in the draft. 

More drama in Miami this season? How long does Philbin last?

a57se
a57se

That PFF breakdown is just plain dumb........Coples is being developed into a Rush LB but they say we should get someone to develop into that role!

There are several other things about it that are dumb but I am not going to waste my time and energy giving it any more thought.

UncleJoesJetFarm
UncleJoesJetFarm

It is amazing how optimism from just yesterday can hit rock bottom in only a day. Yesterday I was fully boned, and today I am a wet noodle. Time for a couple Fluoxetine's, lol That 7th worst roster and diametrically confused on offense article dropped me like a led ball thrown in water!

bob
bob

Strategy, Policy and Central Management ..Evan Silva "in my view" brilliantly sorts out a strategy adapting to a philosophy in regard to Jet football.


Evan states. NY is better off conceding its short comings at quarterback attempting to play run first. ( might I add not a bad idea with Revis over there in New England). Featuring Ivory and Johnson and leaning o Rex defense to stay competitive. With the 18th overall pic devoted to a tight end offensive line and defense.


the view point hopes the Jets draft a receiver to supplement play calling "MM's weapons" and let Geno Smith continue to take his sophomore lumps. Though one could argue the latter is a superior approach.


A pass rusher, cornerback and safety. ( not necessarily in that order) are certainly 

issues that cant be papered over

with the obvious strengths the Jets have along the d-line.


I like for a pass rusher Ford, Fuller I like at CB to me these two guys got a moxy about them as players.


On offense I like Martin, ASJ or Ebron  Maybe that guard out of southern Cal.

NJJDB
NJJDB

Hmmm... I'm pretty excited about the idea of CJ running with a massive chip on his shoulder.

UncleJoesJetFarm
UncleJoesJetFarm

Welp, if that is the case, we play 5 games against teams who he ranks worse than us!

UncleJoesJetFarm
UncleJoesJetFarm

7th worst roster in the NFL? Come on! Diametrically fcked up?

boomer
boomer

I'm very disturbed by the article by The Evan Silva. I had no idea we were that bad.


On the other hand, I guess Rex deserves a bigger raise and a longer contract extension given how the Jets finished last year.

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se  Misi wasn't even a three down player last year.  What the hell are they thinking?

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se  I think if you look at the players in that category, that INCLUDES the player currently in that role.  Maybe it's badly worded, but that category basically seems to be the level in between "need to improve at this position" and "may need to think about the future".


They probably would have been better off simplifying the categories to major need, need to upgrade, need depth, no major need and not a need.

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se  That's the exact quote? I took Pace to be just as much a part of their reasoning (which would make sense). 

levi
levi

@jake100  haha I pretty much called this yesterday with your flip flopping.

Pat d
Pat d

Joey

Most here know what we are at this point. The Jets aren't the 7th worst team and they aren't the 7th best team. Where we are drafting in the first round is an indication of where we are.

Brendan
Brendan

@jake100  Setttttttle down, Joey. Some idiot writing an article that can get picked apart easily is no reason to fret. 

a57se
a57se

@jake100  

10 All-Pro Offensive linemen would satisfy you, i bet!

Brendan
Brendan

@boomer  It's actually pretty terrible reasoning. He's basically saying the team will know who its starting at QB going into the draft, as well as the complete offensive philosophy, and will be drafting based on that. 


And his reasons why the defense isn't "there" are not having a Pace replacement (when Pace was good and they haven't had the draft yet....where they're probably going to find their Pace replacement), not having a CB to push Patterson inside ( a- Patterson plays outside and b- again...the draft) and not having a CF safety even though that's what Bush has been getting groomed for, Ed Reed is waiting in the wings and, again.....draft. 

a57se
a57se

@Bent @a57se 

I think I am still pissed at PFF for the Sheldon snub....

UncleJoesJetFarm
UncleJoesJetFarm

@Pat d  Agreed Pat, we are a mid level team, and with some holes that can swing it either way, but I believe we are on the move. I know it is cliche, but this draft is bigger than big for us.

bobbyj
bobbyj

Isn't that what I said about a week ago? That the Jets had already decided who they're starting QB would be ( Vick) & that they would draft accordingly, & you & others ripped me to peices for it. We were last in virtually every offensive category that matters, Geno was god alful terrible for huge stretches. It took a small mirical for us to be 8x8, we could easily been 7-9, or 6-10 ( the Tampa game was a gift from the Gods, & we were lucky not to lose the NE game ) McCoy is correct, Geno will not beat out Vick. I've said it before, I think Vick has gotten better

Gavin Buck
Gavin Buck

@Brendan @boomer  There is something that is annoying me currently..... (warning Rant alert)


All these writers, draftniks etc. who 1. assume Vick is going to start  and 2. make no allowance for the fact the rookies from last year can and often do improve.


Re. 1. If Silva and other writers have not listened to the tone the team have taken with the QB situation, it is that Geno starts ahead and if we screws up and does not progress, in comes Vick. Now, Vick may indeed start Week 1, but as of now it is Geno's job to lose. Many writers esp. national ones do not seem to even acknowledge this and just assume as Vick is the bigger name, he is starting. Now, onto point 2....


2. This is connected to my first point, but wider to the whole 2013 draft class. When evaluating needs, many have not acknowledged that players like Geno, Winters, Bohanon, Milliner and even Richardson can and do improve when they list out needs. Do these players need to improve, yes? However, there is no acknowledgement on their potential upsides toward a second year improvement, which would then decrease some of these needs. Especially when evaluating a roster and potential needs you need to take account of anticipated improvement from last year's class, esp. if there was a curve of progression in performance.


Anyway, rant over. Would be interested to hear anyone else's thoughts on these points (if my rant has not made them incomprehensible)

boomer
boomer

@Brendan @boomer  And for some reason almost everyone forgets about Antwan Barnes.  He's a real person and everything.

Bent
Bent moderator

@Hanknaples  In a list that was published before the 2013 season.

UncleJoesJetFarm
UncleJoesJetFarm

@Brendan @jake100  


I agree, it is not sitting on a fence like some would say, but as as you point out, considering the "now" I think it is appropriate.

Brendan
Brendan

@jake100 Cautiously optimistic is a good place for a Jets fan right now, good choice. 

a57se
a57se

@Bent @a57se 

When has Sanchez ever cried about being put i that situation to the press?


Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se @Bent  That's admirable, but then he shouldn't really cry about being put in that situation.  It's disrespectful to the GM, the coaches and the guys blocking for you.

a57se
a57se

@Bent

Yeah, what a dumbarse Sanchez was.....trying to make a play for his coach and team.....Geez!

Bent
Bent moderator

@bobbyj  


I still don't accept it was rigged.  Sanchez perhaps would have won the contest, but it's not like Sanchez was playing that well either.  Geno was worse, but then if they're both going to be bad, it makes sense to take the guy with more upside.


If Sanchez didn't get hurt (which was HIS fault, nobody else's) then he might have still got the nod.  And if he doesn't get to play in that Giants game, then everyone would still be saying that wasn't fair to him and that the competition was rigged because he wasn't given a chance in that game.

bobbyj
bobbyj

Once again I'm not a Sanchez fan, but no matter what Brendan says Mark was winning that QB comp, which we all know was rigged, which is why I expect a fair comp now. The Sprano year was as unfair to Mark that year, as last year was to Geno, of not more so. Would I be shocked if Mark gets his number called in Philly & does well? Nope. Point is there must be a methodology to developing Geno. What is the harm in starting Vick? If we start Geno & he falters think it won't hurt him? Think again

Brendan
Brendan

@levi I think he does, but he'd have to play exceptionally to unseat Geno, IMO. Or, conversely, Geno could absolutely suck and Vick would just need to play decently. 


I don't think Geno sucks, though. 

levi
levi

@Brendan  Just wondering if you guys think Vick has a chance to win it I guess. I kinda expect them to hand it to Geno.

levi
levi

@bobbyj  Whether Sanchez was winning the competition or not did we really want him to start? I for one was ready to move on and give Geno his chance. Mark failed miserably with his chances.

Brendan
Brendan

@bobbyj  He was more impressive before the ankle sprain, and Mark wasn't impressing anyone for the most part. He got hurt doing Mark Sanchez things, which is why the team should have kept playing him the way they did. 


He was not beyond scrub reps because he couldn't stop playing like a scrub. 

Brendan
Brendan

@levi In what sense? I think either QB has a viable chance of winning the job, if that's what you mean. 

bobbyj
bobbyj

That is nonsense Geno was losing that comp, how many ints did he throw to the giants in that game alone. The Jets were through w/Mark, understand this I'm no big Sanchez supporter, I'm talking about what was/is the best way to devolope Geno

Brendan
Brendan

@bobbyj  The fact that Mark Sanchez, in his 5th season, got hurt on a play where he held the ball WAY too long, then tried to throw an ill-advised pass instead of just taking the sack is PROOF that he should have been out there. 


Those are all things a 5th year QB should not be doing, but he did them against a backup defense. 


Geno was beating Mark before he sprained his ankle, fyi. 

Bent
Bent moderator

@bobbyj  Sanchez was injured on a play where he held the ball for 5.3 seconds.  The starting line wouldn't have been able to keep him clean for that long.


Oh, and the guy who was blocking the person who injured him?  Brian Winters, who started 12 regular season games in front of Geno.

bobbyj
bobbyj

The Snoopy bowl? He shouldn't have been out there. Didn't he almost get killed on the previous play. I was no lover of Mark, but he won that competition, know you want me to believe Geno will beat out Vick in a legit competition? He couldn't beat out Sanchez

bobbyj
bobbyj

It's the same argument as last year. Sanchez should not have been fed to the wolves, Geno shouldn't have been handed the starting gig. Did I see Mark as a long term solution, not really, but Sparanos offense was horrible. & unfair to even Mark

bobbyj
bobbyj

The best laid plans of mice & men often go astray....Everyone is loving Idziks plans, but who knows what cards the draft holds..Can Vick stay healthy, long enough to make a difference? Johnson got anything left, can Geno step foward? Tell you one thing, really pissed that they moved the draft foward

a57se
a57se

@Bent @a57se

The guy SAID HIS KNEE was STILL giving him problems......HOW THE EFF is that being NEGATIVE to say hold your horses guys, he hasn't played in three years and his knees are still swelling?????????????

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se @Bent @bobbyj  You didn't KNOW he wasn't healthy.  Just like we didn't KNOW he was.  And the team DID sign him so obviously they hoped he'd be able to play.


I had the same conversation with several people about LaRon Landry in 2012 and he ended up playing 16 games.  Was I in the know there?  No, I merely said that we don't know whether he'll remain healthy or not.


You kinda were being negative, although obviously there was a good chance what you were saying might come true (and it did).

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se Save one of those pats on your back for someone else, 57. 

a57se
a57se

@Bent @bobbyj 

and I said Garrard wasn't healthy and was told I was being negative! Even though Garrard had daid that his knee was swelling from running around on the turf.

Bent
Bent moderator

@bobbyj  I have access to the database but they can't be pulled up here.  Not sure how I would find that anyway, nor what good it would do.


Brendan may have predicted Garrard would start if healthy, I know I did and with good reason because Garrard's worst season is better than Sanchez's best.  He wasn't healthy though, so he didn't start.


If Vick gets injured and doesn't start as a result do you want us to remind you that you were saying Vick should start in every other post?  

Brendan
Brendan

@bobbyj  I said I would be okay with that plan, I didn't say it would happen. 

bobbyj
bobbyj

Really? Geno got hit about 5 feet out of bounds in case you weren't watching...5 feet out

bobbyj
bobbyj

You never said that David Garrad would start & then the Jets would transition to Geno when we were arguing about the problems of dumping Sanchez & who would start. Bent if you please, how do we pull up old comments.

bobbyj
bobbyj

I'm not sure, if he has matured like I think & Marty squeezes what he can out of Mike, who knows. I just know that Geno was still very raw at the end of last year, & having Vick behind him, it pressurizes the entire system. Geno is not impervious to stress, & we don't want the fans calling for Geno's head on a pike. I think that for the betterment of Geno, it pays for Mike to start & then once Mike breaks down we transition to Geno, & yes I believe that the Jets have already decided who will likey be the starter. & are planning accordingly

boomer
boomer

@bobbyj  We have no idea what we have in Geno yet.  Did you pick Brady as a 1st round HOFer when he was taken in the 6th round? Were you calling for Belichick to start him his 1st year when he was sitting behind Bledsoe?


Different players take different amounts of time to develop.  It's silly to assume you know how much Geno will have progressed by the start of this season when its still May.  Vick may beat him out by a sizable amount in which case he probably will start. But there is every chance that Geno will take a big leap in his understanding of the offense and the NFL this year, particularly when it looks like he will have much better players to work with.


Lets just let it play out and see what we have.

Bent
Bent moderator

@bobbyj  How far do you think they can go if they DO start Vick?

bobbyj
bobbyj

Because I didn't see that. The Tampa game was lost, peroid end of story. That out of bounds hit was one of the dumbest plays in history. I still can't understand why people on this site can't understand why it makes so much sense to start Vick. Vick is not the long term solution, not unless he can stay healthy. Pulling Vick will do nothing to hurt him, while on the other hand pulling Geno will destroy his confidence.

bobbyj
bobbyj

I don't disagree, there is no way of knowing what devolpment if any Geno will have, I'm just making a simple statement. We do not have a Tom Brady/ franchise QB, & it is very common for 2nd year QB's to have adjustment problems. I'm not saying Geno can't be the dude, maybe he can, but starting him, with Vick behind him, Rex w/about a zero range for failure, it makes sense to trot Vick out there. Vick's skills haven't eroded, if anything he had matured, he just lacks the ability to stay healthy. The Jets start Vick, hope for a nice early take off & then transition to Geno once Mike gets hurt.

Pete 57
Pete 57

But Bobby, we could've easily been 9-7 or 10-6. Why do you leave that out?

High$ocietyJet
High$ocietyJet

You're right and for some reason people seem to forget this.

levi
levi

@High$ocietyJet  He also let up at the end to make the penalty possible. He did it in other games too.

High$ocietyJet
High$ocietyJet

And for the record that TB game was not luck Geno caused that penalty by running hard earlier in the game.

levi
levi

@bobbyj  This is something Ive been going back n forth on lately. At first I figured let Geno start but now Im not sure. I guess they really should have a ligit competition for the better of the team but not sure that will happen.

boomer
boomer

@bobbyj  I'm pretty sure Tom Brady is the most popular player on the Pats and not Ryan Mallett.


The Jets are going to start the QB who they believe gives them the best chance to win both in the short term and the long term.  Pretending any of us know exactly who that is right now is dumb.


None of us have any idea how much if any Geno will progress from last season.  He might be able to build on how he finished, he might regress.  We'll find out as the summer and early fall play out.

Brendan
Brendan

@bobbyj  


Please stop attributing something to me that I never said. I never guaranteed that Garrard would start, I don't know why you keep bringing him into our discussions. 


The team has already positioned itself in a "Geno's spot to lose" way, you take Silva, I'll take Mornhinweg and we'll see who knows more about the Jets' plans. 

bobbyj
bobbyj

Please, I preach you are what you record states, but that Tampa game? That may have been the dumbest play ( on a Leon Lett kinda scale ) that I've ever seen. The fact that someone put in print what I stated a week ago is telling. One more time, it's much easier to go from Vick to Geno, than Geno to Vick. If you start Geno & he hits the sophomore slump, & they are forced to go to Vick, through Geno away. The Jets will play Vick, get what they can from him, if/when Vick gets hurt, you go to Geno. The back up QB is the most popular player on the team, if you want to set Geno up for future sucess that's the way

you go, or we could start David Garrad again right Brendon

Brendan
Brendan

@bobbyj  Yes, and Evan Silva putting it into print doesn't make it any less ridiculous. 


And the "they could have been" argument goes both ways. If any of the three close games that were losses turn out differently, the team might be playoff-bound. Don't play that game, it's silly. 

Brendan
Brendan

@Gavin Buck Agree with what you're saying here, there's a lot to not like in that article (and most of this type).