Quote: Namath on the Vick and Geno competition

“Right now, they have two quarterbacks that they’re talking about and, given help, given great blocking and great defense, they can win with those two quarterbacks … But, come on, there is no doubt who has the most experience and is probably the better quarterback now. But there is no doubt where the Jets are trying to go in the future. They want Geno to step up to be that man.”

- Joe Namath, speaking last night on NFL Network (Source: ESPN New York)




58 comments
Matthieu Laughlington
Matthieu Laughlington

I find it difficult to not judge Vick for what he did...that said, I do recognize that he is a great QB and I appreciate the trade from a perspective that it shows a commitment to winning. But If he is in fact the better QB, and I do believe he is, I think the Jets would be contradicting themselves by not putting him on the field. I think they owe it to their players to star the guy who gives them the best chance of winning. Further, I think that it's going to be very difficult not to start him should Geno struggle even a little. Many of those players, look up to Vick in awe. Vick was a very exciting player a decade ago when many of these current players were in their formative years, add to that the fact that he changed the way the position can be played, as well as the fact he was a black QB, which at the time was less common then it is now and you can start to understand the respect he is going to have in that locker room.

Good luck not starting him if Geno struggles, because those players will be behind him. I think it will be very difficult, and to not do so will quickly become a situation full of headlines and quotes,  and could ultimately and unfortunately cost Rex his job if it were to come to be.


bonozoffa
bonozoffa

"there is **no doubt** who has the most experience and is **probably** the better quarterback now." 


i love joe, but the contradiction so typical of namath, and even more typical of cimin-a-dooshe and espn to harp on comments like this w/o mentioning the contradictory nature of it. 


but this is precisely why the qb competition needs to play out in the preseason and why cimin-a-dooshe and espn are the clown hacks that they are when it comes to the their coverage of the jets. that fact they continue to prop namath as some clairvoyant who speaks the truth that jets fans "may not want to hear" and no one calls espn out for promoting this contradictory crap is appalling.

realjetfan
realjetfan

Yawn. Can't even take this guy seriously anymore. His opinion is as valid as any media member's opinion. He's as fairweather as they get... pump the fans up when the team is up with hype/vlog videos, then join the media and dump on this team when they're down.


You all just watch what Geno Smith can do with an extensive offseason of NFL experience and legitimate weapons on offense.


Pat d
Pat d

Read all the comments. Only one baby complaining about Joe Willie.

Vice Roza
Vice Roza

If Geno is even or if Vick is only decimal points better than Geno then Geno starts, period! At one point I wanted to have a truly open competition but the more I thought about it, it made more sense to me to let Geno go in this season with the confidence of a starter and the feeling that he has the organizations favor. The reality is that Vick may be better than Geno at this point but he only gives you half the season. Geno, for as bad as he was last season he did manage to play all 16 games. I hope he does legitimately win but if he doesn't we have one of if not the best back up in the league.

Joe Willie
Joe Willie

Im just hoping Geno can improve, he has all the tools except the experience and a resume proving he can get the job done in the NFL. Geno proved to me last yr he can find receivers down field and throw any pass expected of him or run if the opportunity  presents itself. Lets hope for the best blogosphere.  The good news is we didnt give the kid 50 million up front like we did with Mark Sanchez .  

williamg1
williamg1

Considering Geno started all 16 games last year, it would be disrespectful for this competition to be anything other than Geno's to lose. 

Joe Willie
Joe Willie

At this point Joe is just a fan like the rest of us, if the Jets want Namath to go along with the script the Jets should put him on the payroll. 

tsjc68
tsjc68

But, come on, there is no doubt who has the most experience and is probably the better quarterback now. 


Half right.  There's no doubt who has the most experience.  There is some doubt as to who is the better quarterback now, because Michael Vick, despite all his pedigree and talent and success, hasn't had a truly stellar season since 2010 (just some solid ones) and Geno Smith, like many youngsters, started to play well down the stretch and Geno taking a step of progress over the winter wouldn't be shocking in the least.


There's no doubt that 2010-2013 Michael Vick was a better quarterback than 2013 Geno Smith.  There is some doubt about who will be better in 2014, though, because Geno Smith is not a fixed entity who cannot or has not improved (and because Michael Vick of right now might not ever be Michael Vick of 2010 again).

Monty
Monty

whoever can win this most games has my vote.  the ravens won it with dilfer, the Giants won with hostetler..The bucs Brad Johnson.. the list goes on..Get in the playoffs get hot get a superbowl. Whoever can win us more games..this decision will probably be pretty obvious once the games begin. .. hoping for Geno though. I like that kid



Bent
Bent moderator

@bob Just included that in today's daily links.  Needless to say I don't agree.

Matthieu Laughlington
Matthieu Laughlington

@realjetfan  I agree, I mean he's a Superbowl winning QB and someone who helped define the league and a 40 year Jets fan, but what credentials does he really have?

bobbyj
bobbyj

Sorry he is correct, at this point Vick is the way superior player of the two. They will try to push Geno, they want him to be the future, which I get, but I'm still very unsure of

marcus81
marcus81

@Vice Roza  Geno had the worst receivers in the league last year, even Simms started to look bad after relieving Geno, when a QB has bad receivers he will press to make plays that aren't there, the O line got man handled in a few games too

Bent
Bent moderator

@Vice Roza "only decimal points better" - based on what though?

marcus81
marcus81

@Pete 57  both Sanchez and Barkley struggling? USC QB's won't be drafted high again, but then again somebody will draft one of them high if they seem good enough

Bent
Bent moderator

@Pete 57 Still think Kinne has a shot to beat out Barkley.

Bent
Bent moderator


@Hanknaples "I've never seen anything this fast" - Cortland Finnegan, discussing his own deterioration.  

Joe/Orlando
Joe/Orlando

Well, he did say "probably the better quarterback".

Brendan
Brendan

@jake100 What if the team has a top-5 defense and a top-5 running game...are they a win now team at that point? 

ramble914
ramble914

@Bent @bob

There is no way Leger Douzable makes the team over Kenrick Ellis.

bob
bob

@Bent @bob 

Yep I put that up there early Bent hoping you would post it if you wanted to I almost put yo Bent . I fiqutred if you want you'll post it . I to was thinking what da Ellis cant imagine Jets cutting Kendrick.

Vice Roza
Vice Roza

@Bent By whatever metrics you would use to Jude a QB competition. If I had to pick one thing in particular though it would be turnovers.

The most important metric should be turnovers.

joemustgo
joemustgo

I remember Lupica beseeching the Jets to trade up and draft Leinart.

Matthieu Laughlington
Matthieu Laughlington

@bonozoffa No, it's still not. The first is in reference to experience, the second is in reference to being better....it's just weird cause you then go on and point out (correctly) the difference.


Bent
Bent moderator

@ramble914 @Bent @bob They're not really interchangeable anyway. It is worth noting that Dooz played more than Ellis last year though (albeit partly because of Ellis' back issues in the first half).

Matthieu Laughlington
Matthieu Laughlington

@Vice Roza  Well you'd be using faulty logic then. If a QB has %50 more turnovers but also has %100 more touchdowns then it likely means he's a very dynamic player that takes chances and is still  more effective.

Zartan
Zartan

No, wins losses. Brett Farve was a gun-slinger but won many games where he threw way too many ints, Sanchez did the Same.

marcus81
marcus81

@joemustgo  I wanted Leinart myself, little did I know, best scenario back then was to trade for Rivers if Breeze  wouldn't have gotten hurt, Rivers is kind of too emotional to play in NY though

Brendan
Brendan

@joemustgo Not saying he didn't do it also, but Gary Myers was the lead champion for that move. He even wrote a "Jets will rue the day!" article afterwards, I'm pretty sure. 

Brendan
Brendan

@Hanknaples Know what's interesting? Chip Kelly's high-paced offense (which I am a fan of) wasn't responsible for the most offensive snaps in the league last year. That'd be Denver, followed by 9 other teams before Philly. They moved faster than most teams, but they were good, not great, in per-drive stats. 


It will be interesting to see how things shake out as more teams try doing this, but it's not like this is completely uncharted, Brady and Manning have been using moderations of the "walking no huddle" for years. 


At some point, the low TOP begins to hurt your defense, though. Chip might want to investigate pulling the foot off the gas when he has a lead, but that's something that might come with experience. 

Pete 57
Pete 57

The whole win now vs building for the future argument/ choice seems nearly nonexistent in today's NFL. Every team is trying to win now and build for the future at the same time. With free agency you have to have an eye on the future always. When a team inserts a young QB you can somewhat say they are building for the future but usually the team will put other players around him to have success right away. Maybe you are able to say a team is taking 1 year of building for the future, but that QBs second season the team is looking to win. Geno and the Jets are a great example. Obviously the Jets are trying to win now, that's why they signed Vick. ( in case Geno stumbles) But they have an eye on the future, which is why Idzik didn't spend on high priced FAs.

tsjc68
tsjc68

@Pete 57 Thanks to non-guaranteed contracts, tradable draft picks, the vagaries of scheduling and the small-sample size of a 16-game season, every NFL team is a win-now team.


And a win-later team as well, for that matter.

juunit
juunit

@Pete 57 

Actually, I hear they signed Vick because Rex has a snoring problem, and they thought Vick was the heir to the Vicks Vaporub corporation. 

Man, were they pissed when they found out the truth!

Pete 57
Pete 57

Yep, that's pretty much what I said below. Bent is referring to a team that decided this is the one year to go for it and failed. Denver and the Pats are close to that this year.

Bent
Bent moderator

@tsjc68 @Pete 57 I'm not sure that second statement applies to some of the teams who've gone all-in and landed themselves in legit cap hell.

Brendan
Brendan

@Hanknaples But Kelly didn't motion last year nearly as much as he did in college. Because NFL teams are much faster and are able to scheme out his quick reverses, sweeps and bubble screens based on that stuff*. 


What Kelly's offense truly is, is a spread run-first offense, and it's all built around McCoy. The Phins don't have anyone on that level (not even close), so they can't run their offense the same way. Where Kelly is usually facing favorable down/distance situations, the Phins could be in much worse shape. Their OL is in considerably worse than Philly's (which is near the top in the league), their QB is way more mistake prone (perhaps due to the OL, perhaps he's just not as good as Foles) and the RB's are not comparable. There's a reason Chip was fine letting D-Jax go, and it's because his prized piece lines up in his backfield. 


These motions don't confuse the defense generally, they just use play actions to hold guys in place to get speed into space. Chip's offense does one thing exceedingly well: it opens up lanes for speed to kill, and he gets the ball in those guys hands as quickly as possible. 



*not entirely, obviously

Bent
Bent moderator

@juunit @Pete 57 Maybe they got Chris Johnson because they thought he was an heir to the Johnson & Johnson corporation?!?!

juunit
juunit

@Bent @juunit @Pete 57 

All of this is Terry Bradway's fault. Why is this guy still in charge of Wikipedia-ing all the new players?

Pete 57
Pete 57

My father worked for Colgate Palmolive for 35 years and never even got an invite to camp. It's who you know!

Brendan
Brendan

@Hanknaples 


"It’s reminiscent of Chip Kelly’s offense in Philadelphia, with the tempo and style," said one Dolphins player who asked not to be named.

Kelly uses a spread offense, and the player said the spread is an important part of this Dolphins attack, but there is more to this offense than that.

"There are some West Coast offense concepts," the player said. "Some shotgun, some under center. They’ve discussed having both no huddle and huddle. It’s fast tempo."

There’s no natural fullback, though there is a role for an H-back and multiple tight end sets, the player said.


http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2014/5/24/5747342/chip-kelly-eagles-offense-miami-dolphins-bill-lazor


Like I said, the personnel is too different, they're not going to be running a strict spread the way Chip does. Will they use it some? Yes, but they don't have the personnel to run it all the time. 


And Mike Wallace in the slot? I guess it won't matter what position he runs his go route from, but the guy is pretty much only an outside WR, seems odd to take your big money receiver and play him out of position. 


Having a TE in doesn't hide your offensive strategy, Hank, they've been using TEs for decades. There is even history behind the idea of using two tight ends. 


Just stop right now with the RB comparison. McCoy is quite possibly the best in the league, Lamar Miller can't hold his jock at this stage. 

Bent
Bent moderator

@juunit @Bent @Pete 57 To be fair Terry Bradway only got hired because they thought "that bald guy who won four superbowls with the Steelers" would be a good personnel guy.

Pete 57
Pete 57

They have the craziest criteria for hiring people!

Brendan
Brendan

@Hanknaples


"which is NOT too bad considering the Eagles had the TOP rated QB with the TOP Offense (or close to it) !!!"


And I will make the same point I've made twice already: is Chip sending his top QB and offense to Miami for his protege to use? No? Then why are we talking about them? 


What Razor has is the playbook that someone else put together and a tempo he's trying to emulate. And, per the link I just posted, he's already adding different principles that Chip doesn't necessarily use. This may be it's just Razor's own stamp on things (stuff he's wanted to put in for a while but wasn't able to for whatever reason), or it may be out of necessity due to the fact that the Dolphins' offensive roster isn't nearly as good as the Eagles' offensive roster


It's great that you think the Phins will just magically have a good OL, but their guards are still huge question marks and they're starting a rookie at RT (who your son called the best tackle prospect of the past 7 years or something insane, btw). 


Miller is fine. He's Bilal Powell in teal. Woopty Do. 


LeSean McCoy is one of the best players in the entire NFL. 



a57se
a57se

@Hanknaples 

The Dolphins suck Hank....Rex' D will destroy their new offense.