Quote: Willie Colon on Brian Winters

“I never grade anybody until the pads come on. I’ve played enough football to know a guy will be great in shorts and he’ll look like a superstar – and come August, you can’t find him on tape. But Winters, just from a physical standpoint, you can tell he’s put on muscle. He looks so quick. He’s athletic. He runs really well. That’s all the signs you want to see from a young guy.”

Jets guard Willie Colon on fellow Jets guard Brian Winters as he heads into his second season (Source: Star-Ledger)




298 comments
Bent
Bent moderator

Everyone, the latest TJB HOF article is up and it's an awesome one.

Lloyd Jay Reife
Lloyd Jay Reife

With all of our off-season acquisitions, draft choices, releases, not one football pundit  places the Jets in any category higher than  in the bottom three in the league.

We'll have to shut them up simply by winning.  The only solution when words fail.

Bent
Bent moderator

Discuss:


NFL on ESPN ‏@ESPNNFL  11m

Jaws QB Countdown ranking thus far. 32 M Cassel 31 R Fitzpatrick 30 G Smith 29 J Locker 28 EJ Manuel 27 C Henne 26 B Hoyer 25 J McCown



tsjc68
tsjc68

@UncleJoesJetFarm He's old and crappy.  I'm not.


He apparently had fallen behind Brandon Weeden, which gives you an indication of how craptacular he is.

tsjc68
tsjc68

@Lloyd Jay Reife WE WERE #19 AT PFT, BABY!!!!


Well, we're movin on up!

To the eastside!

To a deeeeeeeeeluxe apartment!

IN THE SKY-Y-Y-Y!

juunit
juunit

@Bent 

I'd probably rate Locker higher. He was starting to turn a corner before he got hurt last year. Otherwise, I won't get too upset about one or two spots. I'm not sure that Manuel should be higher than Smith, but they should be right near each other. 

a57se
a57se

@Bent 

What a Jets HATER Jaws must be!!!

Bent
Bent moderator

Kinda surprised to see Cassel and Fitz below Geno, not that I'd definitely put Geno last.

Lloyd Jay Reife
Lloyd Jay Reife

@tsjc68

# 19?  terrific!   Doesn't that still translate into golf in January for the Jets?  

Brendan
Brendan

@tsjc68 Still can't believe that. Florio must be losing his grip over there. 

Bent
Bent moderator

@juunit @Bent Yep, Locker was on the brink of the top ten until that weird injury.

tsjc68
tsjc68

@juunit @Bent

Yeah, I have no real complaint with any of these particular rankings.  Those guys are all near the bottom in some order; figuring out which specific order is hairsplitting.

Lloyd Jay Reife
Lloyd Jay Reife

@a57se

Schadenfruede

scha·den·freu·de noun, often capitalized\ˈshä-dən-ˌfri-də\

: a feeling of enjoyment that comes from seeing or hearing about the troubles of other people.  In German it's the pleasure of another's misery.


SackDance99
SackDance99

@Bent These ranking don't upset me all that much because it's impossible to evaluate Geno's rookie performance.  He had a low passer rating of 8.3 and a high of 147.7.  So, the question is which number do you put more stock in?  The near-0 number or the near perfect number?


I found this interesting:


Nine QBs have had a zero passer rating and also earned a perfect (158.3) passer rating during their careers: Johnny Unitas, Joe Namath, Terry Bradshaw, Len Dawson, Bob Griese, James Harris, Bob Lee, Craig Morton, Warren Moon, and Eli Manning.

That list includes 6 SB-winning QBs and, to date 6 HOFers.  Seems to me that the ability to play almost perfectly outweighs the stinker...and Eli got that 0 his rookie season.

tsjc68
tsjc68

@Bent

I'm surprised there's 24 QBs better than McCown.  I would have put that number more in the 17-20 range.  

tsjc68
tsjc68

@UncleJoesJetFarm @Brendan

If people mistake your sarcasm for sincerity frequently, it should probably serve as a warning to you vis-a-vis the wisdom of your sincerely held beliefs.

Brendan
Brendan

@tsjc68 It's either they copy an expanded tweet, or copy the dead space after it, I think. I can't come up with any other reason, at least. 

__fense
__fense

@SackDance99 @Bent It makes a lot of sense. Everyone can play badly, but you need to actually have talent to begin with to play well. 


What would be more likely, Peyton Manning going out and getting a 0 passer rating, or me going out at getting a 158.3? 

tsjc68
tsjc68

@a57se @tsjc68 @Bent

Jaworski said he saw inconsistencies in Smith’s game last year, but that is normal for every quarterback prospect short of John Elway, Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck.

“When I went to Morgantown and watched his workout I was blown away,” Jaworski said. “I thought he was tremendous. … It was clinical. It was surgical. He did a lot of really, really good things.”

Jaworski said Smith was the only quarterback he had with a first-round grade in this draft. He said in speaking with people around the league he never heard any questions about Smith’s character.

SackDance99
SackDance99

@__fense @SackDance99 @Bent Nobody's denying that Geno was wildly inconsistent, but he has the ability to play at an extremely high level.  That he was able to get a near-perfect rating with the Jets 2013 receiving corps was truly remarkable.


Plus, while Mark "flashed" he never had a passer rating higher than 124.3 in his entire career.  Geno exceeded that in his 5th NFL game.  And, it took Mark until his 17th pro start to get a 3 TD - 0 INT game.

And, of course, Mark had a better OL, better running game, better receivers and a better defense to help him out.

a57se
a57se

@__fense @SackDance99 @Bent 

That is called flashing. Every QB who has ever made it to the NFL has flashed at times...even Mark Sanchez.

Becoming consistently good is a lot harder.

SackDance99
SackDance99

@a57se @SackDance99 @Bent He should be ranked wherever Eli was ranked before his 2nd season because, IMO, sucking as a rookie, but showing promise late is how Geno should be evaluated.

tsjc68
tsjc68

@Lloyd Jay Reife @tsjc68

Which makes it all the more surprising that THEY'RE the one collection of pundits NOT predicting a top-five draft choice for us next year.

williamg1
williamg1

Having a Sanchez vs Geno comparison makes me want to sigh....

__fense
__fense

@a57se @__fense @SackDance99 @Bent Which is why there's so many people on that list of guys who've been both perfect and terrible, and why two thirds of them aren't in the Hall of Fame. 

tsjc68
tsjc68

@a57se @__fense @SackDance99 @Bent

And yet, as SD99 points out, Mark's "flashes" as a rookie were less impressive than Geno's "flashes" as a rookie.


Mark had three games as a rookie with a passer rating of 100 or higher, and they were 107.0 (against Oakland), 101.1 (against New England), and 100.3 (against Miami).


Geno's rookie year only had one such game, the Falcons game, but it was EXCELLENT: 147.7.


Geno's peak as a rookie was higher than Mark's was.  That's the point.

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se And you were Mark's biggest cheerleader when he did, so why doesn't Geno get that same love? 

a57se
a57se

@tsjc68 @a57se 

Geno's came against a 4 win team while Sanchez' came against the Jets biggest rival... we can qualify anything.

none of that means squat.

just wishful thinking.

a57se
a57se

@Brendan @a57se 

You were a bigger cheerleader of Sanchez then I even was but the difference is I learned my lesson, you haven't.

When Geno proves his worth, I'll support him but not until then.

I hope he improves but I doubt he will enough to be better than the crap we had for 4 years.

tsjc68
tsjc68

@a57se @tsjc68 @Bent

Or, he's stating that Geno is currently one of the worst QBs in football while still believing he'll end up being one of the better ones.

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se @tsjc68 "Geno's came against a 4 win team while Sanchez' came against the Jets biggest rival... we can qualify anything." 


If having a great game is so easy, why did Sanchez never have one that good on the multitude of occasions where he also faced a four win team or worse?

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se Context: Geno beat Matt Ryan with all his toys (Julio Jones included). That was the last game all his toys played together. 

tsjc68
tsjc68

@a57se @tsjc68

Geno's came against a 4 win team that was a 4 win team because they collapsed with injuries AFTER that loss to the Jets.


And, as SD99 points out, GENO'S CAME IN HIS THIRD PROFESSIONAL GAME.

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se "You were a bigger cheerleader of Sanchez then I even was"


Says the guy who used to post under a Sanchez-themed name on here. 


"the difference is I learned my lesson, you haven't."


What lesson? 


"When Geno proves his worth, I'll support him but not until then."


This is the most twisted mindset you can have as a fan. You don't withhold your support of a player until he plays to a standard you approve of. 


"I hope he improves"


Yay! Me too!


"but I doubt he will" 


Oh. 


tsjc68
tsjc68

@Bent @a57se @tsjc68

If having a great game is so easy, why did Sanchez never have one that good on the multitude of occasions where he also faced a four win team or worse?


(gets popcorn ready)


a57se
a57se

@Brendan @a57se 

WTF are you talking about, I have ALWAYS posted under a57se...Bent can verify.

a57se
a57se

@tsjc68 @Bent 

I'm gonna wait for 68's opinion from now on before I post...this way i know what to think!

__fense
__fense

@a57se @tsjc68 Do you know what revisionist history means? Because it doesn't mean giving context to what happened. 

tsjc68
tsjc68

@a57se @tsjc68

"The Falcons were a good team before they lost Julio Jones for the year" is not revisionist history.  It's the facts.

Bent
Bent moderator

@a57se @Brendan


You used to post under your first name for a while but there were others posting under the same or similar names so you came up with a57se to differentiate yourself.


I must admit, I thought you previously had a name like Mark "the real deal" Sanchez or something but I must have been mixing you up with someone else so Brendan probably got that from me.

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se Or maybe just don't rush in with your typical negative comment before doing some research for yourself? 

a57se
a57se

@__fense @a57se @tsjc68 

Context? I called Atlanta being lousy and a Jets win before the season started...they got old.

I wasn't the only one talking about their doom last year.

You guys can make it anything you want, I don't care...

a57se
a57se

@tsjc68 @a57se 

The two weeks before the Jets game the Falcons lost to the Pats and the Dolphins by larger margins then the Jets beat them...they were already done.

Brendan
Brendan

@tsjc68 Loss @ NO, beat the Rams, Loss @ Miami, loss to NE, loss to Jets. 


That's 1-4 against 5 teams that aren't easy to beat (Miami at home in September as a dome team is not an easy game). 

a57se
a57se

@Brendan @a57se 

Or maybe you should tell me your opinion first? Then I can have both the 68 and the brendan seal of approval!!

__fense
__fense

@a57se @__fense @tsjc68 Once again, things don't happen because you say that they will happen. What you said doesn't have anything to do with the facts, and the facts are that the Falcons were playing well against a hard schedule, The Jets beat them, Julio Jones got hurt, and then the team fell apart. You're going to need more than "Well I knew it would happen in advance" if you're going to claim that the Falcons started playing badly against the Jets for no reason rather than them starting to play badly after their star player got hurt. 

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se Some facts for you: After Week 5, the Falcons were pumping out 391 yards/game (would have been good for 7th if sustained over the entire season). 


People predicted they'd struggle because they had a very tough opening schedule. No one thought they'd struggle as much as they did in terms of W/L, but to act like Geno putting up a stellar QB rating and beating a top offense (at the time) is nothing to write home about is a joke. You can revise the history all you want, that's the truth. 

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se Seriously? They lost by 4 to the Phins and a TD to the Pats, who did pretty well last year, iirc. 

tsjc68
tsjc68

@a57se @tsjc68 @Bent

The "Signing Garrard for a salary where he only costs us 100k if it turns out that he can't play is a good idea" bandwagon?  Yes, you should have, because that contract was a smart move.

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se I don't care if I approve of a post, but it's obnoxious when you fly in to be Mr. Negative and you're not even right. 

a57se
a57se

@Brendan @a57se 

Geno didn't play against the top rated offense...our defense did.

Geno played against one of the worst defenses in the league and managed 15 first downs and 288 total yards with 170 net yards passing...what a GREAT OFFENSIVE OUTPUT!

The Defense kept us in that game. Geno played well for a rookie and didn't turn the ball over. That was it.

tsjc68
tsjc68

@Brendan @a57se

Technically, Brendan, 4 and 7 are larger margins than 1.


THEREFORE I AWARD ALL POINTS TO MR. A57SE.

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se Geno BEAT the top rated offense. He outperformed it. The defense gave up 28 points and over 360 yards. 


It's amazing to watch you flail like this. Geno's first half was phenomenal, finishing with two passing TD's and a 17-7 lead. The defense then blew the lead, but Geno still kept answering (Winslow TD) and then drove down the field from his own 20 for a winning FG, on the road on MNF. 


Tell us one more time about revisionist history, 57. Please. Because the way you do it to serve your own devices is sick, and not "sick like the kids say." 

tsjc68
tsjc68

@a57se @tsjc68 @Bent

What adding David Garrard provided us:

- a veteran presence to mentor Geno on the field and in the video room

- the chance of decent veteran play over Mark Sanchez's derpfest if his knee remained healthy


What adding David Garrard cost us:

- 1.1M if healthy, 0.1M if not


Yes, dude, that's a good move.

harold
harold

@tsjc68@a57se

57:

How can you say that it did not work out, so it was a terrible move?

You can question the move and say I don't think it will work. 

But it is pretty silly to act as though that move was bad becuase it did not work.  It was an upside play that did not work and cost us almost nothing.

a57se
a57se

@harold 

Garrard was not healthy and hadn't played in over 2 seasons.

He retired before OTA's started then we brought him back ANYWAY a couple weeks into the season where we wouldn't even consider playing him when Geno was derping it up a la Sanchez...

That move was a waste.

and I said it from the beginning...not in hindsight.

harold
harold

@a57se

He retired before OTA's so did he effect us in any real way?

Of course not.  He even came back at the end of the season and helped in the QB room.

Geno got better as the season went along.  Garrard may have been a factor.

A waste because he didn't turn into a starter?

Your logic is very flawed.  It seems you are mixing not liking a move with it being a bad move.

Pete 57
Pete 57

Having him on the team at that point instead of a QB that could actually go into a game was something that I felt was a mistake.

tsjc68
tsjc68

@a57se

And all the reasons you listed is why we guaranteed Garrard 100k, and not the 4M he would have commanded if he had a track record of health. 

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se  It cost $100k, plus two weeks' worth of pay in October. That's a negligible amount of money. 

tsjc68
tsjc68

@a57se @Brendan

During the 90 man portion of the roster, where you can easily afford to waste a roster spot or two on an upside play.

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se It didn't cost them a roster spot, though. Retired in May. Didn't resign until October.